Episode 493 – Jaclyn Badeau

Welcome to Episode 493 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and”, those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work.

If you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. The book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture, and I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon and Goodreads and more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it. If you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books.

Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast, so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Jaclyn Badeau. She’s the president of Badeau Consulting in Lexington, Kentucky, and now she’s with me here today. Jaclyn, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Jaclyn: Thanks, John. Looking forward to our conversation.

John: Yeah, this is going to be so much fun. I’m so looking forward to this. I have some rapid-fire questions here, get to know Jaclyn out of the gate. Hope you’re ready. Here we go. Your computer, more of a PC or a Mac?

Jaclyn: Oh, definitely PC.

John: Yeah, I’m the same. I don’t even think they’d let me go into Mac stores. They’re just like, you know what? You’re not cool enough.

Jaclyn: Yeah, I’m not tech savvy enough to be able to figure that out. It could drive me crazy, so, no.

John: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. How about your first concert?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. First concert, a little affair many years ago, it was Alanis Morissette. Fun fact, went to Alanis Morissette’s 25th reunion tour last September 2021, so, got to come full circle with that. It was awesome.

John: That’s incredible. I totally remember that. That’s amazing. Oh, my goodness. All right. How about a favorite ice cream flavor?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness, something peanut butter. Right now, I have this chocolate peanut butter cup that I’m obsessed with, and I just have to not go down the frozen aisle section because I will grab a tub every time, so, chocolate peanut butter.

John: That’s a good pick. That’s a good pick. Absolutely. Okay, more oceans or mountains?

Jaclyn: Oh, both, but I love the ocean with the mountains. Even in California, you get that mix. I would say we take an ocean vacation, but we hike a lot in the mountains too because we’re in Kentucky and go down to Tennessee, so that’s a big one. Ocean.

John: Oceans. Yeah. There you go. All right. Very cool. How about, since you have an accounting background, this is a fun one, balance sheet or income statement?

Jaclyn: Ooh, fun, right? I remember I was taught balance sheet tells you everything because you’ve got to see where you’re at, and the income statement is just the changes in it. I was always taught balance sheet is like the king. You’ve got to verify that. I kind of like the income statement. I feel like, as a business owner, I spend most of my time on the income statement.

John: Yeah, absolutely, as a business owner. It’s like that cash flow, maybe? That’s also a good one. Would you say you’re more of an early bird or night owl?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. Can I be neither?

John: That’s possible.

Jaclyn: I’m in bed by 10pm, I’m going to tell you. That’s my bedtime. Everyone knows it, even my nieces. They’re over there like, oh, Aunt Jac’s bed time’s at 10pm. We’ve got to go. I like my good eight solid hours of sleep, or more.

John: Yeah, or more.

Jaclyn: Or more. Yes. My body requires it.

John: Just tell people that. I think my mind requires it, too, even more. Absolutely. How about, do you have a favorite number?

Jaclyn: Yes, 11. That’s easy. Eleven because there is a story. There’s a background. My husband and I met and started dating on September 11th, actually, of 1998. That was before everything with New York and everything. 11 has always been our number. Yeah, 11th is very special.

John: That’s excellent reason. How about when it comes to books, audio version, e-book or real book?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. You can’t see me folks, but I’m holding a real book. I do a little bit of all actually. Hard books for leadership books because I highlight, and I use them for all the stuff I do. Audible when I’m going on road trips. I actually just did one last month. I have my Kindle, and my Kindle has all the fun stuff, all the fiction and all the fun juicy stuff. Yeah. I do all.

John: Yeah, because with the Kindle, no one can see what you’re reading.

Jaclyn: Exactly. No. I like it.

John: You can’t see the cover.

Jaclyn: No. No one has a clue, and I love it.

John: Right? I didn’t even thought of that. That’s a great point. That’s a great point. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. I’m going to say neither with a side of Star Wars because every time the movies come out, there’s a group of us who always go to the theater, not at the midnight showing because I’m too old for that. Remember, I go to bed at ten.

John: Right. I slept through all of them.

Jacklyn: Exactly. The next day, we’ll do brunch and then the Star Wars. I also love Star Wars. I have Star Wars pajamas and sweaters, so I like the idea. I like Yoda, and I love baby Yoda. I would say neither with a side sign of Star Wars.

John: Okay, if you had to pick, it’d be Star Wars, but it’s more of the everything else about it, not itself.

Jaclyn: Not the movie itself. Yes.

John: How about a favorite cereal from when you were a kid or even now?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. It’s hilarious you asked me. I hardly ever eat cereal. I actually didn’t eat cereal growing up. However, guess what I ate for breakfast this morning. I ate Apple Jacks.

John: Are you serious? That’s so neat.

Jaclyn: I swear.

John: What?

Jaclyn: I swear. It was of one of those things. You go to the grocery aisle, and you get that nostalgia or something. I’m like the cinnamon, the apple. I love Apple Cinnamon stuff, too. I just grabbed the box. My husband is a cereal lover, so I grabbed him some Cocoa Pebbles. Apple Jacks, Cocoa Pebbles, I love those things.

John: Yeah, your parents aren’t watching anymore. It’s like, I can totally eat this.

Jaclyn: Exactly. It’s hilarious.

John: They have the Cocoa Peanut Butter Puffs, I feel like.

Jaclyn: I haven’t tried those. I may have to.

John: Yeah. That’s incredible. You never eat cereal, and then this morning.

Jaclyn: I literally ate it this morning.

John: That’s so good. How about, do you have a favorite actor or an actress?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. I love so many people. When you said that, the first thing that came to my mind was Jim Carrey. I watch Jim Carrey. Growing up, I love comedy, I love to laugh, I love to make people laugh. I love humor and things. Jim Carrey, all the stupid, funny, yes, yes, yes. I love watching Dumb and Dumber and everything just on repeat. All the ACE Venturas. I used to do impressions. I will not do one today, but I love it. Yes.

John: That’s so great. He’s my favorite, easily.

Jaclyn: Oh, is he?

John: Hands down.

Jaclyn: Awesome.

John: Liar, Liar. Me, Myself and Irene. Earth Girls are Easy, going way back in the day. In Living Color, of course, was when he mostly blew up. That’s so great, so great. Would you say more talk or text?

Jaclyn: Ooh, combination because my whole business, it’s talk, but I feel like friends and family, they’re all about texting. I do a ton of texting. I think that most people I text — I’m on a group chat with my mom, my sister, and it’s a daily thing. My business is all about talking in person, on the phone, virtual meetings. That’s just what I do.

John: Yeah, a mix. I’ll take it. I’ll take it. How about a favorite color?

Jaclyn: Blue. Easy.

John: Oh, mine, too. All right. How about a least favorite color?

Jaclyn: Oh, I will say green. I don’t know. I think it’s more of like the hunter green shade. I don’t know what it is.

John: The dark green?

Jaclyn: Yeah. Now, I love plants. Over in my office, I have plants all over the place. I love plants. I love the growth. I love tending to them. I’m all about plants, but to have hunter green on my walls, I just can’t do it. I don’t know what it is. I love olive green. I love army green, probably because my husband and my dad were in the military, so I love camouflage. I love all that. Hunter green, it’s not in my palette in my home.

John: That’s so perfect, and blue makes sense because Kentucky blue, of course.

Jaclyn: Kentucky blue, the ocean, my logo, yeah, all of it. I love blue. It’s calming.

John: Yeah, I wasn’t sure if least favorite color would be like an orange, like a Tennessee, but then you got the bangles. Oh, which one?

Jaclyn: Yeah. Oh, I love the orange, too, but it’s Bengals, for sure. Now, I don’t like yellow-black combination because that’s the Steelers. Number one opponent of Bengals is Steelers. No, no, no, you can’t have that combo.

John: Right. Exactly. Exactly. I love it. That’s so good. How about, we’ve got three more, puzzles, Sudoku, crossword or jigsaw puzzle?

Jaclyn: I would say what I played more recently would be jigsaw probably because a couple of years in COVID, the puzzle, everyone was making a run for puzzles. I did a few, but I say that I would do more Sudoku versus that. I think it was just COVID time period where I was doing a lot of jigsaw.

John: I think a lot of us were, for sure. All right. How about a TV show that you would binge-watch from all time?

Jaclyn: So many. I binge-watch all the time. I would say, if you look back at some classics, I love The Office. It’s so inappropriate, and it’s hilarious. I can pull great clips for all my trainings also, through The Office. Schitt’s Creek was fantastic. That was another series that I’m definitely going to go back and binge-watch. Those are two that come to my mind immediately.

John: That’s awesome. The last one, favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that’s a great question. Besides my dogs that I own or have that are cuddly and cute.

John: That counts.

Jaclyn: Yeah. Okay, that counts, so, my doggies, yeah. I have two dogs, Jet and JD. They’re still in that puppy stage. JD just turned one in February. Jet is one in April. They’re still in that puppy stage, and cute, but they keep us active.

John: Right, a lot of energy. What kind of dogs are they?

Jaclyn: JD is a Border Collie-German Shepherd mix. She has to have some Husky in her because her fur is just so thick and pretty. Jet is a black Lab-Aussie Shepherd mix. He has to have some terrier in him because he’s also short, but he looks just like a black Lab. He has all these characteristics of an Aussie Shepherd. He loves to lay on his back, which Aussie Shepherds do all the time. It’s really cute seeing them. We rescued them.

John: That’s so great. So cool. Let’s talk sports. How did you grow up, in a sports family, as a sports fan? How did this get started?

Jaclyn: Yeah. I was always around sports. I played soccer. I was also a cheerleader for many, many years. I’m cheerleading through third grade, onto high school, being co-captain of the varsity squad. It’s football games, and it’s basketball. I’d really get into it. I’d be yelling in the game. Also, my family, huge sports family. My dad loves college basketball, which is how I got into that, and then just everyone — all the time we go to my grandparents’ house, there’s a sport. There’s NFL on. There’s college basketball. There’s something on. That’s how I got into it. Then my husband and I, he also likes sports. He grew up in sports and playing baseball and stuff. We met so young. I was 15, and he was 17. We just always loved sports, started going to Cincinnati Bengals games and then got season tickets about 10 years or so ago and have loved it.

John: That’s awesome. Did you grow up a Bengals fan then?

Jaclyn: Yeah. Well, in Kentucky, we don’t have an NFL team, so the closest is Cincy. My family’s team was always Cincy. Those games are on, and you heard everyone talking about it, growing up. I just jumped in on that, and my husband was the same. He’s actually from California, but he lived in Kentucky when he was at a younger age. He also had to just grab onto the Bengals too, because again, it’s the closest team. It’s about an hour from our house. Even though they haven’t had a ton of Super Bowl appearances or anything like that over the years, you still have to root.

John: They did this year. That’s all that matters.

Jaclyn: I know they did.

John: That’s all that matters.

Jaclyn: It was so awesome. Yes.

John: Yeah. You’re season tickets for 10 years. You’re not just like, hey, I’m going to jump on the bandwagon, all of a sudden. You’ve been through some stuff, so you’ve earned it.

Jaclyn: We have been through some stuff. I love that. You’re right. Literally, a few seasons ago, winning only two games where we can’t win a playoff game. My goodness. We’d make it to the playoffs some seasons and could not get past that first game. It was so frustrating, but we would stay there until the last second, to go off the clock because you’re just a fan. We’re not the bandwagon people.

John: I love it so much, and you actually went to the Super Bowl, which is so awesome. The pictures are at whatsyourand.com. Everyone could see. That’s so incredible. I thought only celebrities were at that game, and they were. It was celebrities, as well as Jaclyn.

Jaclyn: And me. Yes.

John: So cool.

Jaclyn: Celebrities and Jaclyn. That was exactly right. It was so amazing, such a great experience. We went back and forth whether we were going to go. It was one of those once-in-a-lifetime things. The Bengals, we hadn’t been since late ‘80s. Again, we’re true fans, and it’s so exciting.

John: The Ickey Shuffle.

Jaclyn: The Ickey Shuffle. He was there. Ickey was there.

John: That’s so great.

Jaclyn: I don’t know if they aired it on TV, but they asked him to do the Ickey Shuffle in the intro, before we kicked off the game. It was amazing. There were a ton of celebrities, like you said, some of them very close to where we were sitting. It’s amazing because it’s one of those events of the year type of thing.

John: Right. Oh, yeah, of the world.

Jaclyn: Yeah. Bengals fans, of course, I’m in my jersey and my gear, so was my husband, of course. Then you have the Rams fans. Then you have a lot of people who are just in their church clothes or just dressed up. What’s happening? Oh, my goodness. It didn’t really hit me until seeing people around me.

John: That’s so funny.

Jaclyn: It was a really big thing.

John: Clearly, they’re SEC college football fans. They never got out of their frat boy outfits that they wear to college football games.

Jaclyn: Exactly.

John: You don’t have to wear a shirt and tie to football. You know that, right?

Jaclyn: I know. it’s amazing what everyone was wearing.

John: Church clothes.

Jaclyn: Yes.

John: That’s so good. That’s so good. I love that so much. Do you find that — I’m a huge, huge sports fan. It’s an emotional journey for me. I’m invested in this. I’m not playing, but I’m almost playing. That’s how it feels. I’m a part of it.

Jaclyn: You’re the next player, right? Yeah. The players are actually, are counting on us. That’s why they wave their hands because they’re trying to pump up the crowd because it’s like this energy. Our Bengals players do that all the time. Mixon would get up on the bench and raise his hands. We know that’s when he wants us to be loud. Even in UK basketball, it’s the same thing. They actually call the crowd, the sixth man on the team. They call literally our fans, the sixth man. Football, basketball, it’s all about getting in there. Yes, I’m screaming, I’m rooting, I’m yelling. Sometimes, if I’m not feeling well, I’m trying to restrain myself, but it’s so hard because you’re just so invested.

John: Yeah, it’s like I better not have any calls tomorrow. Luckily, for me, it’s college football mostly, so, Sundays. I can rest, but I’ve got a couple of cough drops in my pocket. Even if it’s warm, it doesn’t matter. Every quarter or every whatever, just keep it going. I love that. That’s so great. It’s so great. I imagine the Super bowl would have to be probably one of your favorite moments, but do you have another favorite moment that comes to mind, of a game that you’ve been to?

Jaclyn: Oh, my goodness. Well, one of the particular ones that come to my mind when I’m thinking about the Bengals, so Super Bowl, obviously that has to be number one. Obviously, I wanted a different outcome, but even though —

John: It’s still a great game.

Jaclyn: It is still a great game.

John: Great game, great halftime still.

Jaclyn: Oh, yeah, it was awesome, but thinking about the first playoff game of this season when we won, we hadn’t won since like ‘91, and we were at home. It was just like, oh, my gosh, we made it. That was awesome. Then we went to Tennessee. We actually went down to Nashville and saw the Titans game. They’re number one. It was like, oh, the little Bengals, they’re coming into the big Titans stadium, who had been on by, first round or whatever. No one gave us any credit for trying to potentially win, and then we won. It was like in shock because all around us were all these Titans fans and then me and my husband. I’m yelling. It’s crazy. I don’t know. All the playoff games stand out for me.

John: What a dream season. That’s for sure. Is this, the sports, something that you talk about with clients? Do they know about the Bengals and the Kentucky basketball and all the sports?

Jaclyn: Absolutely. It’s been a great connector, a great relationship-builder. Not all my clients like sports, but some of them do. Especially in Kentucky, with the Bengals, that’s the team you really root for, and the Wildcats, Kentucky Wildcats for basketball. That’s a big team you root for. I have a lot of clients who were texting me during the Superbowl and during playoff games, oh, my gosh, congratulations; telling me congratulations. Of course, I didn’t do anything, but I’m like, yeah.

John: Still, though, you’ve been along here for the journey. I messaged you.

Jaclyn: You did. Yeah.

John: I was like, this is incredible. This is crazy.

Jaclyn: It was fantastic. Yeah, it’s a great conversation with people, my clients and people in my network and friends and family who also know I’m passionate about it, and they’re passionate about sports in general. It’s a good conversation topic to get to really know your clients, too, and get to know what they enjoy to do. It’s like your What’s Your “And”? That’s really what I do in my business, too. It’s what drives them. What are they passionate about? That’s how you tap into and really build the relationships with people.

John: Yeah, I love that so much. It’s really interesting to me, too, when I’ll meet people, and I’ll be like, what’s an outside-of work-passion? They’re like, well, I’m really passionate about helping my clients. I’m like, no, you’re not. You’re only passionate about it because they’re paying you. You’re not doing it for free. What are you actually truly passionate about, outside of work, nothing work-related at all? Who are you? It’s really cool to just get people to open up and be like, wow, that’s incredible. We’re not making fun of each other like we did in seventh grade. Now, it’s the opposite. It’s like, if you’re the same, I’m going to make fun of you, but if you’re something different and cool and really light up about it, then, yeah, let’s hear it. That’s so cool to hear that you’re experiencing that in the real world as well, which is super awesome. That’s for sure. Was this something that you always shared through your career? Because I know you were with public accounting before and then industry for a bit. Was it something that always came up, or was it more now that you have your own consultant firm?

Jaclyn: Yeah, I think that it was more of, as I developed through my career. When I reflect back into really starting in the profession in public accounting, it was very technical. That’s what you’re taught in school. It’s very technical, technical, and it’s really about the clients and their books. I was an auditor of the tax stuff and consulting there too, but I feel that’s what you’re shaped and told to do and taught in school because it is technical. Once you start just being yourself, and I think that’s the key for people. You’ve got to be yourself. Everyone’s a human being. Once you connect on more of that personal level, I mean, when I talk about building relationships, it’s not about knowing people’s medical history,

John: Or drama or something creepy.

Jaclyn: Exactly. No. It’s about just connecting them on that human level and what motivates them, what drives them. Once I started doing that, which is probably, I would say, I didn’t do that really at the very beginning, but quickly, I realized, wait, we’re all humans. You start talking with your peers, and you start opening up to other people. It really hit me as I was progressing in my career, for sure.

John: Yeah. It’s so true. I don’t know why that is, but our education is all the technical skills and learn the technical skills, pass an exam, get certified, whatever, sort of job you have. Technical skills, we pride ourselves on our technical skills, but then you look around, and everyone’s got the same technical skill. I’m not standing out at all. I’m just one of everyone else. There’s a way that’s a lot easier than having to study and learn. It’s just what do you do already? Who are you? Just let that out.

Jaclyn: Yeah. What do you enjoy doing on the weekends? I’m like, well, football and basketball and pampering. I love to go get manis, pedis, massages, facials. I love to set up the pool, go on vacations and travel, read books, just play with my nieces and nephews. That’s what I enjoy doing, hiking and taking our dogs hiking around Kentucky or in other places. That’s who you are, and you also do other things, too, of course, to pay the bills. Sure. It all gets connected because it’s about relationships and just connecting on a human level.

John: I love that. I love that so much. It’s so true. It doesn’t mean that you’re not good at your job, or you’re not dedicated to your career. It’s just that there are also other things that are equally cool and important. Do you have any words of encouragement for people listening that maybe have an “and” that they feel like, well, it has nothing to do with my job, so no one’s going to care?

Jaclyn: I would say that everyone has an “and”. We know that. Obviously, you know that. You’re passionate about it. We all have it. Show people that you’re human. I am certified in emotional intelligence. That’s my basis of the whole practice of what I do. It’s all about being yourself, what makes you happy, and when you start sharing that kind of stuff, you start building those relationships, which helps in the work environment, to make decisions and be more innovative and all those things. There’s a ton of research that supports that. I would just say, just start small because you’re like, oh, I have to tell, it really gets personal, and I’m an introvert. I hear those excuses all the time. I was like, hey, it’s not a dissertation. Just start talking with someone as like, hey. Instead of saying like, how was your weekend, and someone says, fine; go, what did you do this weekend? Guess what, you’re going to start hearing what people do and then you could share. You could even start with asking someone else an open-ended question and then that could be your way to just start sharing yourself and making those true connections. Start small. I’m big on small steps.

John: Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s such great advice for everybody, and just the What’s Your “And”? language gives it a framework because then it’s not just like, creepy. It’s like, who are you? I care. I’m genuinely interested. Just start small. I love that so much. Well, I feel like, before we wrap this up, because this has been so awesome, I really peppered you with questions at the beginning, so I should turn the tables and make this the episode of The Jaclyn Badeau podcast. Thanks for having me on.

Jaclyn: Yes. Welcome, John.

John: I’m all yours.

Jaclyn: Welcome, John, to my podcast with some rapid-fire questions. Let’s hit a couple. What about, what’s your favorite age so far?

John: Oh, wow. That’s a good one. Favorite age. Wow, that’s really a good one.

Jaclyn: I love it. I love when you have to pause, and I love my students, even though I love the awkward silence, I love it.

John: Yeah. Well, I’m just giving it some thought. I’m not just going to throw out, like, 21 because that was amazing, because I was an idiot. You look back. I wasn’t at the time an idiot, but you look back, and you’re like, oh, my goodness. I don’t know, probably now. It’s good. I’m 45, and that’s great. Maybe I wish that I could play soccer a little bit faster and better. My body’s not quite where my brain still is, but it’s good. I feel like the knowledge and the wisdom and the confidence and the things that come with age far outweigh being able to run down a through pass like that. It’s all good. Yeah, I would say now, 45.

Jaclyn: I love it. I know when we’re younger, we always want to be older. Now it’s like, I’m feeling good in my own skin.

John: Yeah. Seinfeld’s got a great bit about that, for sure.

Jaclyn: What about, who do you text the most?

John: Oh, who do I text the most? I guess probably my wife just because it’s like, I’m out and then it’s like, oh, do we need to get anything, or whatever? I would say probably, yeah, that, probably my wife.

Jaclyn: Your wife. Yeah. I’d say a lot of people would say their partner for sure.

John: Not that I don’t like talking to her. It’s just sometimes she’s busy, and I don’t want to interrupt.

Jaclyn: Yes. It’s quick little check-ins or little questions. I send a lot of those to my husband. What about the favorite place you’ve traveled to?

John: Okay, that’s going to be two in particular. Cape Town, South Africa is pretty incredible, and then Costa Rica is also pretty incredible. Although the Maldives and Dubai were pretty awesome. Zanzibar, that’s an island off of Africa, Zanzibar is pretty cool. Not a lot in the US, but there are cool places here that I’ve also been. For some reason, you equate better with longer trip, I don’t know why, or more expensive trip. Even though, I live in Colorado. I can just go up to the mountains, and it’s amazing. I would say all of those. It seems to be a theme of there’s water and an ocean nearby.

Jaclyn: That’s what I was going to say. That’s what it sounds like. You had a theme going on there. You’ve got the mountains, day to day, it sounds like, and then you get your water in, on your vacations.

John: Exactly. Exactly.

Jaclyn: Yeah. What’s your favorite climate season? Because it seems like you like the ocean.

John: Fall.

Jaclyn: Oh, fall. Tell me why.

John: Fall all day. Because I hate sweating and summer is gross, so, fall. It’s when college football is happening. The leaves are changing. It’s starting to cool down. It feels cooler, even if it’s whatever. Yeah, it’s fall all day. Pumpkin pie, there’s Thanksgiving, there’s food, candy on Halloween. All this goodness is happening in the fall. That would definitely be my favorite season, time of the year. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Jaclyn, for being a part of What’s Your “And”? This has been a blast.

Jaclyn: Thanks, John. Really appreciate it.

John: Yeah, and everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Jaclyn at the Super Bowl or maybe connect with her on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. Everything’s there. While you’re in the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to check out the book.

Thanks again for subscribing to the podcast on Apple podcast or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.