Welcome to Episode 539 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett. And each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby, or a passion, or an interest outside of work. And to put it in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and” as in like who else are you, those things above and beyond your technical skills.

And if you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the award-winning book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, and a few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside of work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it, and writing such nice reviews on Amazon, and more importantly changing the cultures where they work because of it.

And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audiobooks. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week.

And this week is no different with my guest, Jon Ekstrom. He’s a principal at Deft Communications in Denver and the host of the Jon of All Trades podcast. And now, he’s with me here today. Jon, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Jon: What up, Jon? I think it was the last time we were together. We were over some Italian food.

John: Yes.

Jon: With the delightful Rick Goomay.

John: Exactly. For sure. And we just need Rick to change his name to Jonn, like Jonn with two Ns so we have all the iterations of our name of John. But I have 17 rapid fire questions, things I never asked you over the Italian food and we probably should have.

Jon: All right, let’s do it.

John: Here we go. How about a favorite movie of all time?

Jon: Gotta go with the Wizard of Oz.

John: Really? Okay. I like it. Solid answer. That’s great.

Jon: Absolutely. I mean, you can’t go wrong with that movie. It’s really got it all. And so, I’ve waffled a bit over the years. I’m big Tarantino freak, but, no, I gotta come back to the Wizard of Oz. That’s it.

John: Yeah. Whether you got Pink Floyd playing or not, it’s still good. It’s still good.

Jon: 100%.

John: When it comes to puzzles, Sudoku, crossword, or a jigsaw puzzle?

Jon: None of the above really.

John: Okay.

Jon: But every morning, I do not only Wordle, Lewdle.

John: Ooh.

Jon: Yeah. Are you familiar with Lewdle?

John: I’m not. Lewdle, what is Lewdle?

Jon: It’s basically Wordle, but with nothing but profane terms.

John: Oh. That’s fantastic.

Jon: It’s phenomenal. And then I do Framed.

John: Oh, okay.

Jon: So are you familiar framed?

John: Yeah, absolutely. Those all count. Definitely, those all count. How about a favorite color?

Jon: Gotta go with purple.

John: Oh, okay. Okay. How about a least favorite color?

Jon: In terms of like colors that I wear, I cannot wear yellow or orange.

John: Okay. It’s funny ’cause that question always comes down to colors that don’t look good on me while I’m wearing them. It’s not just a color in general. But maybe I should just change the question to color you hate wearing the most.

Jon: No, I got nothing against orange or yellow. They all got their place.

John: I don’t know. No, I’m just kidding. I’m teasing. Like there’s such a spectrum on those. There’s the neon, then there’s the pastel, and then there’s everything in between.

Jon: I don’t know, man. They all got their place. I kind of like them all.

John: No. No. For sure. Just in case they’re listening. You don’t wanna offend them.

Jon: Yeah.

John: Are you more talk or text?

Jon: Unfortunately, I’m more text, but I talk for a living.

John: Right?

Jon: Like part of my frustration is like what could be solved in like a 2-minute phone call frequently takes like 9 texts back and forth and you go “Why are we doing this?”

John: Yes. If it’s the third text, I’m calling you back because it’s like we’re not doing this.

Jon: By the way, that’s gotta freak out Gen Z. Like have you ever tried to call someone from Gen Z where you’re like “Why are you calling me on the phone”? And you go “This really isn’t that hard.”

John: Right. It’s called a phone for a reason.

Jon: I started my career in cold calling, and you get used to it. And it’s not a big deal once you do it a few times.

John: That’s very funny. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Jon: Probably Frances McDormand.

John: Oh, wow. Okay.

Jon: Can you think of a bad Frances McDormand performance? You can’t.

John: No, that’s true. All right. How about a least favorite vegetable?

Jon: I gotta go with cauliflower.

John: Yeah, that’s solid. That’s a good answer right there.

Jon: And I’ve worked some cauliflower rice into my routine.

John: You gotta flavor it up and you gotta work at it.

Jon: You gotta really disguise it. I’m not thrilled about it.

John: Right. It’s a filler.

Jon: It’s a way to sneak some vegetables into your day.

John: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. How about when it comes to books? Audio version, e-Book, or real book?

Jon: Real book. Oh, yeah. No, I can’t do audiobooks because I spend my entire day with large chunks of audio.

John: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Jon: And like that’s the last thing I want. I don’t need more voices talking to me in my earphones.

John: Right. Right. Just driving it crazy. How about a favorite number?

Jon: I gotta go with either 10 or 17.

John: Yeah. Is there a reason?

Jon: Well, yeah, ’cause 10, the Roman numeral is X and my last name is Ekstrom.

John: Yeah, there you go.

Jon: And so, in college, my radio DJ handle was Johnny X.

John: Yeah.

Jon: And so, like X, that’s 10, that’s me, that’s my last name. 17 was the number of Mark Grace who used to play first base for the Chicago Cubs. And he was my favorite player. He actually signed a photo of me when my dad met him in the airport.

John: Oh, that’s incredible. Yeah, he was great. I’m a huge Cardinals fan, but hat tip to— I mean, that was the Ryne Sandberg and Mark Grace.

Jon: Andre Dawson.

John: Andre Dawson. And, oh man, they were fun. Maddux was even there for a little bit.

Jon: Maddux won his first Cy Young with the Cubs and then they promptly traded him in typical Cubs fashion.

John: Right? Which is why I’m a Cards fan. That’s how it goes. That’s how it goes. How about do you have a favorite sports team?

Jon: I mean, my dad grew up in Chicago, so my heart is with the Cubs. Sometimes it’s the Avalanche. Sometimes, if I’m being honest with you, it’s like the Heart Foundation from the WWF.

John: Oh, now we’re talking. Okay. There we go. That’s a blast from the past. Wow. Yeah.

Jon: Either the Heart Foundation or the Rockers, or especially when the Heart Foundation would fight the Rockers.

John: Right? Then that’s heaven. That’s heaven right there. Very good. Very good. How about a favorite adult beverage?

Jon: Right now, it’s a toss-up. If I’m drinking it straight, it’s bourbon. If I’m mixing it, it is gin and blackberry hibiscus soda from Simple Truth.

John: Oh, wow. Okay.

Jon: Yeah. It’s one of those seltzers that you can get like from King Soopers. It’s like their, I don’t know, top shelf brand.

John: From like the Kroger.

Jon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

John: Yeah.

Jon: And so, it’s that mixed with gin. It’s phenomenal. It’s been my summer drink.

John: Very cool. How about a favorite season? Summer, winter, spring, fall?

Jon: Summer in a landslide.

John: Oh, wow. Okay.

Jon: Yeah.

John: All right.

Jon: So I’m always a little sad when summer ends because my birthday’s at the end of summer. I know colder weather’s coming. I love wearing less clothes. I hate wearing socks.

John: Yeah. It’s all downhill from here.

Jon: Kind of. I always try and make the most out fo summer. So yeah, summer.

John: Okay. Okay. How about ice cream? In a cup or in a cone?

Jon: Cone, but I don’t drink a ton of ice cream because it disagrees with my sort of—

John: Ah, yeah. Okay.

Jon: …constitution.

John: All right. Man, the non-dairy is really coming on strong. They have some good ones, some really good ones for sure. How about more oceans or mountains?

Jon: I gotta go with mountains just because I’m a Colorado native.

John: Yeah, there you go. Three more. Your computer, a PC or Mac?

Jon: It’s a PC.

John: Oh, wow. Okay. I thought I was gonna be going Mac on that one, but you surprised me. Star Wars or Star Trek?

Jon: Ultimately, not really either. But if I had to pick, I would say Star Trek just because I like that universe a little bit more. I think it speaks to me a little bit more than the Star Wars universe. And like Dave Matthews band fans, the fans of Star Wars I find to be a barrier to entry.

John: Like Dave Matthews band fans. That was awesome. Well played, man. Well played ’cause I’ll +1 on that one. The last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Jon: Oh, dear. The favorite thing I own. You know what? I’m gonna go with something recent that we just bought because it’s hitting in my backyard and it’s helping me feel less dread about the coming colder weather. We just got a hot tub.

John: Oh, nice. Okay. There we go.

Jon: Yeah.

John: Nice. Fancy. I do have a friend that got one, and he said it didn’t play out the way he had intended when he was asking his dude friends to come hang out in the hot tub. He’s like “So let me know how that goes for you.” Or he is like “Yeah, not too many people taking me up on the offer.”

Jon: No, that feels like an invitation to something else perhaps.

John: Yeah. Exactly. And you’re like “I didn’t get it for them. I got it for me.” So there we go. Maybe there’s a themed party to happen there, which leads right into what we’re gonna chat on. So like how did you get started with that?

Jon: So it’s funny because when I started my career, I thought I wanted to be an event planner. And I was working for this PR firm and I planned a few events. And I realized “Wow, I despise this.” Like I hate doing this because every event you go to, if it’s successful, has someone behind the scenes having a heart attack at all times.

John: Oh, okay. Yeah. Fair. For sure.

Jon: And there’s so much prep and you finally get to the day of— It’s nice because when you do an event, there is a definitive finish line, which there isn’t always in every project.

John: Yeah.

Jon: But I realized I could do it well. And the first one I ever threw, I wanted to throw a beer pong tournament in college, but I wanted it to be like legit. So I got these poster boards, I made brackets, I measured them out, I made everyone have like team names and stuff. And I realized there was something there. And the more it went and the older I get— So particularly, John, this has really taken off in the last I would say 5 or so years. People are looking for reasons to cut loose because in our jobs, we have so much where we have to enact or affect this persona that maybe we don’t identify with as much. And it’s hard to cut loose.

John: Yeah.

Jon: And I realized if you provide people just a little bit of framework and a little bit of structure, they are gonna have the best time. And it’s better than going to just some unstructured party because, I mean, you’ve been to a zillion parties where everyone just kind of like clicks off and they go “I know these people.” So they’re in one part of the party. You got another group of friends in another part of the party. If you give a little bit of structure to it, people mingle a little bit more and people tend to have a better time.

John: Yeah. And sadly, at those parties where there’s no structure, they’re all talking about work and “Wait, what? Like what the hell are we doing? Like why are we doing this?”

Jon: Do you remember there was a site called Someecards.

John: Oh, yeah!

Jon: Yeah.

John: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Jon: So one of my favorite ones I ever read was it’s just a photo of someone and they’re like “Well I’m headed home now to check work email.”

John: Right?

Jon: Like for much of the time, that’s what we’re doing anyway.

John: Yeah. No, exactly.

Jon: But if you can be someone else even slightly, even tweaked just for a little while, you step outside yourself, you tend to have a better time. You become more gregarious. Like your walls come down a little bit. And by virtue of doing that, everyone’s like “Man, we have so much fun at your house, at your parties.” And I go “Well, yeah, it’s because I’m giving you something a little bit different than just showing up.” And it’s like “Well I brought beer and here’s a few snacks.” And you go “Yeah, okay. This is actually pretty grim.”

John: Right. I showered for this. Like “What?”

Jon: To talk to these same people I don’t even like at work.

John: That’s a good point. So what kind of themes have you had in the past? I mean, the beer pong tournament of course.

Jon: So that’s become a whole thing. And John, I’ll tell you that is the perfect party architecture because we invite people from all of our different friend groups, so no one knows each other that well. And we say you need to come with a costume, and a team name, and entrance music. And what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna write like a WWE or UFC style intro for you, announce you, and you come out with this awesome entrance. And it works because like you’ve got people doing something that’s lightly competitive. Like we don’t allow any like red asses there. It’s like have fun, compete hard. But like at the end of the day, like don’t take it too seriously.

John: Yeah.

Jon: But there’s a politeness that comes with that because you’re playing with people you don’t know that well. And here’s the other thing, you have downtime between matches. And if you don’t feel like making small talk, you just sit down and watch the games or you heckle the competitors or whatever.

John: Yeah.

Jon: And so, like it provides a little bit of call it scaffolding to initiate conversations in new ways with people you wouldn’t do that with otherwise.

John: Yeah.

Jon: And then injecting a little bit of pageantry here, like our lives are devoid of pageantry and people love that whether they know it or not. To have the opportunity to make an entrance,—

John: Yeah! Totally.

Jon: …that’s cool. Very few people do that.

John: Ding, ding, ding! I like it. It’s like “What?! This is incredible.”

Jon: And I’ll go the following contest is a first round match in the Beirut tournament and it’s scheduled for one fall. And I have everyone shot one fall back at me like right.

John: Oh, okay. Okay.

Jon: And it’s great, man. Like we have the most fun with that every time we do it.

John: That’s fantastic, man. That’s really, really cool. And I love how you said like just providing a little bit of scaffolding. Like imagine if that was in corporate, you know, where it’s like if there was just a little bit of scaffolding and let people just run with it, like how awesome of a place would that be to work? Yeah.

Jon: 100%. Well, it’s like why in terms of parties. There’s frequently casino nights and why those are popular? It’s because you’re providing a little bit of party architecture for people. Like you meet someone from another department, and you’re sitting there at the black check table, and table gets hot. All of a sudden, you’re connected in a new way where you’re having a lot of fun with someone. You go “Man, remember casino night when we got on that huge roll or like the craps table was hot or I had all these bets on the table and then you rolled snake eyes or whatever?” Right? That provides fodder that is like great currency for establishing new bonds and new friendships.

John: Yeah. No, I love that. That’s so good. And just imagine if like you have a weekly meeting or a monthly meeting. Well, what’s your intro song? Like we’re all coming into the conference room. Like you just come into your walkup music if you will at a baseball game, you know. Like how great would that be? Like if I ran a department, I would totally do that every time. Like why not? It was unprofessional. It’s gonna take an extra 2 minutes out of our day. Really? Okay. Yeah, exactly. If that 2 minutes is knocking you off your game, then maybe you shouldn’t have that job.

Jon: Yeah. Now, introducing from the 13th floor, the head of accounting, you know. And like you walk in and you go “Yes, I’m ready to present.”

John: Why not? Eye of the tiger dun, dun, dun, dun. You know, it’s like that’d be incredible. Like that would be a great place to work, man. And you’d mix your songs up every time or whatever. And like you were saying, it provides that pageantry. It provides that where like— I mean, we’re all in a show anyway. I mean, life is a show, so like why not? You know? What was that? I think it’s a Jim Carey quote or movie where he was like, you know, the best part of a movie is like the action music or something along those lines. And man, there should be that, you know, like why not type of thing.

Just that pageantry every day.

Jon: 100%. So another one of the parties we do is called Kenny Lagers.

John: Which is, well, I don’t even need to know. I’m there.

Jon: You got it. What’s funny is I actually stole that concept. It was from the Great American Beer Fest. I saw a poster for it. It was like after Great American Beer Fest was dying down. And you go to GABF and you’re drinking all these heavy, heavy beers, you know, double IPAs, and bare laid stouts, and things like that. So they said, “Here’s what we’re gonna do. The day after GABF or the closing night, it’s all gonna be lagers, and pilsners, and light beers. And we’re gonna listen to yacht rock.

John: Okay. Okay.

Jon: And I go “What a great way to come down from this giant festival for all these beer nerds.” And I go “All right. So here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna have everyone dress up in their best like uppity yacht wear. Just boujee as hell. We’re gonna put on the yacht rock. and we’re gonna drink lagers, pilsners, white wines, and rosé is okay too.”

John: Right?

Jon: And everyone gets to cosplay as like, you know, you’re like elitist out on the Hamptons or the Mediterranean or something.

John: Like a cardigan wrapped around your neck and like all that.

Jon: Absolutely. I know you do photos, so I’ll show you one of me and my wife.

John: Nice.

Jon: I had a couple show up in like— He had his full captain’s hat on, and he was wearing a blue blazer with like the brass buttons, and everyone’s like kind of trying to outdo each other, but in a really playful way where it’s not like “Man, how could that guy be dressed better than me?” It’s like “Man, you came over the top of me.”

John: Yeah. No. I mean, kudos, man, because that’s impressive.

Jon: One year, I bought myself a RompHim.

John: Oh, wow. Okay.

Jon: Yeah. Which that’s an unusual piece of—

John: Right. That’s something you hope to return to Amazon.

Jon: No. I got it. I’ve gotten some more mileage out it.

John: There you go. All right. That’s awesome though. But is this something that like you would talk about with coworkers, or clients, or things like that that would come up?

Jon: So, John, my big thing is— so a lot of what I do is creative and people hire you because they perceive you to have good and interesting ideas and be a little bit off kilter. And generating the raw material is always the hardest part. And so, if even in your spare time you’re demonstrating like “Hey, this is what I do in my spare time”, they go, dude, you are unusual. Like there’s something to be said for that. Not to toot my own horn here too much, but there’s like—

John: No, it’s true.

Jon: There’s like a charisma aspect to that. It’s like an enhancement to what they hire you for. And one of my guiding ethos is always keep ’em guessing. Like literally always keep ’em guessing. So I don’t advertise this a lot, which is like when we met and we talked about this show, I thought this would be an interesting thing to talk about because this is not something I broadcast a ton. But if people ask, you know, “What are you doing”, I’m like “Oh, we’re having our Kenny Lagers party this weekend.” And they go “What is that?” And I explain it to ’em, they go “Wow, what a cool concept.” And so, when you can demonstrate that sort of when people aren’t expecting it, when you’re not selling them anything, it tends to land a little bit firmer because like they’ll remember it and go “Oh, yeah, that that’s that weird guy who does like the music video parties and the beer punk tournaments.” And you go “Yeah, that’s me. That’s how I think. That’s what I do.”

John: Yeah. I mean, it’s just a matter of fact. It’s the same as “Oh, well, I’m going to the baseball game, or I’m going to the mountains, or I’m going to whatever.” It’s like “Oh, okay, this is what I do.” But you’re not like afraid of sharing. It’s not like “Ooh, if I tell you I’m doing this, you’re gonna run away, or fire me as a client, or whatever”, you know, type of thing. ‘Cause you don’t have to be shouting it from the rooftops every single day ’cause then it’s obnoxious and no one wants to be around that person.

Jon: I mean, John, one of the things is I kinda like hiding in plain sight too. One of the things is with people I work with, I think the people I work with think I’m more conservative than I am. And the people in my real life think I’m more liberal than I actually am.

John: That’s funny.

Jon: Yeah. So it’s all right there. Like if you go to my podcast website, you know, I’m doing topics and blog posts about things that interest me. It’s just that most people aren’t even bothering to do the work to check it. It’s like “No, this is me. It’s always been there.” And so, that gives you a fidelity as well. Like you go “I’m not trying to snow you on anything. This is who I am. And if you look for just a little bit, you’ll find it pretty quickly.”

John: Or just ask. I mean, you know, it’s that easy. I mean, just ask like, yeah, it’s just right there. And I think that’s fantastic, man, ’cause so many times we get in our own heads of, you know, “Oh, well, am I supposed to or who did I tell? Who didn’t I tell?” It’s like this isn’t illegal. It’s not like you’re running a drug ring. It’s just like we’re having themed parties.

Jon: You’re not having a backdoor card game.

John: Right? Yeah. I mean, it’s just like we’re just having themed parties. Like it’s on, you know. And it’s just it’s something people do. That’s awesome, man. And how much do you feel like if it were like, you know, larger organizations, how much is it on the organization to care about people having outside of work interest versus how much is it on the individual to just maybe create a little small circle amongst their peers?

Jon: You know, that’s a question each organization needs to ask itself.

What kind of organization do we want to be? And I can tell you this, when I was in corporate, I had my corporate persona and that persona felt not true to who I am. And I didn’t particularly enjoy it, which is why when I got out I go “Okay, I’m gonna be who I wanna be.” And so, like I love punk rock. I love throwing these weird parties. I mean, I’ve got my hair like in this quasi mohawk right now.

Jon: Right.

John: And I’m having more success than I ever have. So, my advice, not that you asked for advice, but—

John: Well, no, absolutely.

Jon: To anyone who is in a corporate situation, you’re feeling unfulfilled or you’re feeling like you’re not being true to yourself, ask yourself where could you go to where you might feel more fulfilled or are you okay with this sort of personality that you’re affecting? Do you like that? Do you enjoy leaning into that? Because sometimes people like to just go to work, be who they are at work and leave that persona there, and then go home and be who they wanna be. If you feel unfulfilled by that sort of bifurcation or that delta between those two personas, then ask yourself “Where could I go to be more myself or what can I do to fill in that gap a little bit more?”

John: And a third question even is has anyone actually told me this or am I making this up in my head, you know? Because so many times we’re in a like asking permission kind of world where it’s like “Well, no one said you can’t, you know. Like no one said like why are you doing that? You know, like why are you making your life miserable because no one said anything? Like you have no basis for this. None.” And well, one friend went “No, that didn’t even happen.” You know, like it wasn’t even that. But such great advice there of, you know, that work persona and then who you truly are. And if that delta is too big, then you’re a miserable, miserable person, and you’re not very good at your job, and you’re not very good at your life outside of work.

Jon: That’s very true. Like the unhappiness will tend to seep. I mean, it’s like water. It will find the available space, and it will soon overtake you if you’re not careful about it.

John: Definitely. Very much so, man. And kudos for you for recognizing that and taking steps to be like, you know, “Hey, I’m gonna be me.” And then what’s fantastic about it is it’s the best ever, you know. And it’s still being professional. It’s still getting your work done, but it’s doing it in the Jon Ekstrom way, you know. And it’s just the same, but you’re happier, and better, and more effective.

Jon: Yeah. And I think people will— When they perceive authenticity, they will find you because it’s like, okay, that is someone who is living their best life, they’re being their most authentic self, and there’s magnetism to be had there. Whereas if you’re effecting a persona, it’s gonna catch up with you eventually ’cause it’s like, yeah, okay, you can play this role. But when the mask kind of comes off, you go “Oh, there’s something missing there.” And we’re naturally sort of repelled and that’s too strong a word, but it can be off putting. And you go “Yeah, I don’t feel as strong affinity for this person that I’m working with.”

John: Yeah. And if someone— To me anyway. If someone’s too perfect, I’m like “All right, something’s up here. ’cause that’s impossible.” It’s impossible to be human and perfect. So, I mean, there was one person that nailed it and that was Jesus. So like, you know, and I guess there was a pun there on accident. But either way, it’s all good. You can’t be human and perfect. So, if you’re trying to portray this perfectionism, I’m not buying it and people don’t. Like you’re sniffing out.

Jon: You’re gonna get letters on that one too, by the way.

John: It’s factually true. It’s factually true. And if anyone’s still writing letters, then God bless ’em.

Jon: You’ll frame it.

John: There we go. So this has been awesome, John, and so many good nuggets in here from you and for people to take away. I feel like it’s only fair though that I turn the tables. And since you’re a pro, you will know what to do.

Jon: Oh, yeah.

John: So thanks for having me on the show and I’m all yours, whatever questions you got.

Jon: All right. So, since we were talking about theme parties, let’s say you’re invited to my beer pong tournament. What is the gimmick you and your partner are dressing up as? Because we’ve had a lot of pop culture references. You’ll see ’em in the photos. Do you have something in mind?

John: A team name? Well, I feel like—

Jon: You have the name dialed in, but like what’s in reference to?

John: Yeah. I feel like it would be some sort of like— I mean I would just play up the CPA background, like my CPA background, Little Debits and Credits. Then the Debits person has to stand on the left and the Credits person has to stand on the right just to make sure that we’re balanced out there and like it’s— But yeah, some sort of— I don’t know. Something like that and some pun on— I don’t know—something along those lines.

Jon: So you’re not Ben Affleck in The Accountant, right, where you’re secretly in—

John: Yeah. We’re not that cool. We’re just like accountants that are at a beer pong tournament.

Jon: You’re going out in the first round.

John: Well, that’s something I could keep score, which is really where I should be anyway, so it’s all good.

Jon: You get to be the ledger man.

John: I can audit the score keeping to make sure that it’s done appropriately.

Jon: Oh, man, that sounds like a real hoot for everyone.

Okay. So we mentioned this. We talked about walkup music in pro wrestling, in baseball, in UFC. What is your walk up music?

John: Ah, yeah. So, when I did comedy, it was All the Small Things by Blink 182, which is just such a great intro. First 20-30 seconds are just so great.

Jon: Well, and I’ll tell you, The Avalanche just won the cup and that song played a huge role in their mythology this year.

John: Absolutely. Yeah. But that was my walk up every time doing comedy. Yeah, absolutely.

Jon: Okay. And then we’re gonna go one a little bit off kilter here. Do you have a favorite sandwich of all time? Because I just had mine this weekend.

John: Wow, okay. You know, get your pens ready for some more letters. There was a restaurant in my grandparent’s hometown in Decatur, Illinois. It was called Fatty Melt.

Jon: Yeah.

John: And it was grilled cheese sandwich bun. Two grilled cheese sandwiches, and a burger, and cheese, and whatever, all that in the middle.

Jon: Wow.

John: Yeah. It was called fatty melt. And I ordered it just because of the name and wow. I don’t think I ate dinner that night.

Jon: Or for the next week and a half.

John: Yeah.

Jon: But, okay, so it’s like a patty melt. But instead of buns, it’s grilled cheese sandwiches.

John: Exactly. Two grilled cheese sandwiches. Yeah, one on top, one at the bottom.

Jon: Yeah. Yeah. I got it.

John: Yeah.

Jon: That is really, really something. Mine for the record, I gotta get it on here, it is a roast pork sandwich from Tommy DiNic’s from Philadelphia.

John: Oh, okay, okay. Oh, that sounds good.

Jon: It’s sharp provolone, roast pork, and broccoli rub on this beautiful, beautiful like Kaiser hoagie roll.

John: Okay. So it’s a little bit crunchy, almost like burnt in sort of texture to it.

Jon: No, no, no. No. So they roast the pork and then they do thinly sliced. It’s like deli sliced pork.

John: Ah, okay. Got it.

Jon: And it’s served in a little gravy. And so, the whole thing just melts in your mouth. It’s phenomenal.

John: That’s fantastic. Then we put some grilled cheeses on either side and then we call it— No, I’m just kidding.

Jon: Now, you’re a monster. No way.

John: Then you ruined it.

Jon: You ruined it, John.

John: Right. Awesome, man. Well I really appreciate you being a part of this, Jon. And thank you so much for, yeah, just taking time to be a part of What’sYour “And”?

Jon: Happy to be a part of it. Thank you for the opportunity. You’re doing great work, and I can’t wait till our paths across again.

John: And everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Jon at this themed parties, or maybe connect with her on social media, or check out the Jon of All Trades podcast, you can go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there. And while you’re on the page, please don’t forget to hit the big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. And don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple podcast or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.