Episode 581- Megan Gluth-Bohan

Welcome to Episode 581 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garret. And each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby, or a passion, or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and,” those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you besides the job title.

And if you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the award-winning book on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. The book goes more in-depth with the research behind why these outside of work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such nice reviews on Amazon and, more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it.

And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every weekend. And this week is no different with my guest Megan Gluth Bohan. She’s the CEO and owner of TRI in Seattle, Washington. And now, she’s with me here today. Megan, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Megan: Thank you very much for having me.

John: This is gonna be so much fun. But right out of the gate, I got 17 rapid fire questions for Megan. Get to know you. Here we go. The is the easy one, I think. Favorite color?

Megan: Purple.

John: Purple. Solid. Solid. How about a least favorite color?

Megan: Brown.

John: Oh, yeah, that’s by far the most popular, least popular color. I don’t even know if that makes sense. No one likes brown. Nobody. How about, ooh, PC or a Mac on your computer?

Megan: Macintosh all the way.

John: Oh, okay. All right. You’re one of the cool kids. All right, I see.

Megan: That’s right. There we go. There we go. I am not. I am not allowed in the store. They asked me to leave. Pens or pencils?

Megan: Pencils.

John: Pencils. Oh, okay. Old school. All right. All right.

Megan: Old school.

John: Yeah. How about ice cream? A huge ice cream junkie. In a cup or in a cone?

Megan: Cone.

John: Cone. Nice. There you go. A little extra sugar.

Megan: That’s right.

John: Do you have a favorite day of the week?

Megan: Mondays.

John: Yeah. Is there a reason?

Megan: I love the beginning of a new week. I feel like it’s a fresh start.

John: Yeah. Absolutely. There you go. How about when you’re on an airplane? Window seat or aisle seat?

Megan: Aisle seat. I have to be able to get up without asking anybody else to let me out.

John: Right. You’re like the gatekeeper. You decide if someone else is getting out.

Megan: I will let everybody out. I just don’t wanna ask permission.

John: Right. Right. There you go. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Do you have a favorite number?

Megan: 4.

John: Yeah. Wow. Why is that?

Megan: I have no idea. I just have always liked that number.

John: It’s a good number.

Megan: It is.

John: How about books? Audiobook, e-Book, or a real book?

Megan: Any book. But if I had any amount of time or access, I would read an old school— I guess it’s old school now— paper book.

John: Right. Right.

Megan: Yup.

John: The actual physical copy is old school. That’s crazy.

Megan: The physical copy of the book all bent in my hand of like a paperback versus a hardback for that reason.

John: Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Megan: Neither.

John: Neither. Fair.

Megan: It’s not my jam.

John: Sure. No, fair. That totally works. Totally works. Ooh, this one has to be your jam. Toilet paper roll over or under?

Megan: You know, it’s funny. I was gonna ask you about that later.

John: Oh, okay. You can. Fair. You can.

Megan: But toilet paper always goes over. If it’s not, then there’s something wrong with you.

John: I love it. Are you the kind that switches it when you’re like at somebody’s—

Megan: I absolutely will. I absolutely will.

John: Love it. That’s so awesome. It’s such a simple thing, but it’s like hilarious to me that— We got four more, I think. Chocolate or vanilla?

Megan: I like a twist. Oh, like a twist

John: Oh, okay. All right.

Megan: Yeah.

John: I’ll let you have it.

Megan: Because it’s the perfect balance of both.

John: Sure. I’ll let you have it. Okay. When it comes to puzzles, Sudoku, crossword, jigsaw puzzle? Wordle, I guess, is a thing.

Megan: Crossword.

John: Crossword.

Megan: Crossword.

John: Okay.

Megan: I’m a New York Times crossword puzzle every day kind of gal.

John: There you go. I don’t hate myself that much to like just not know words. I’m just like, man, I’m an idiot.

Megan: It’s actually super fun. I’ve got the dictionary and all that kind of stuff too.

John: I’m impressed.

Megan: Yeah, I’m into it.

John: No, good for you. Sunrise or sunset?

Megan: Sunrise all the way.

John: Okay. All right.

Megan: I love the early morning.

John: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you’re Pacific time, so you buy in a little extra on that. No, I’m just kidding. It’s still morning. It’s still early.

Megan: It is. It is.

John: How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Megan: You know, I don’t know if I could answer that. I probably am not hip enough to answer that question. I ride along the documentary world a little bit hard, I think. And I wouldn’t even know how to answer that question.

John: Whoever the host of the documentary is, that person.

Megan: That’s 100%. I really like Ken Burns.

John: Ken Burns! I’ll take it. That’s excellent. I love it. That’s a solid answer. That’s the first time I’ve gotten Ken Burns, believe it or not.

Megan: That’s awesome. I’m setting trends here.

John: Absolutely.

Megan: Nerd trends.

John: But I’ll take it. That that should definitely be one. How about a favorite animal, like any animal at all?

Megan: You know what? I think I’m probably fascinated with birds more than a normal human being would be. I don’t have a favorite. I just find them peaceful and fascinating. So, pretty much any bird.

John: And they can fly and they’re like superheroes.

Megan: Yeah. Amazing.

John: And walk. It’s like they’re cheating.

Megan: Exactly.

John: All right. And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Megan: My very favorite thing that I have and own is my sauna, believe it or not.

John: Oh, okay.

Megan: I treated myself. I had a sauna put in and it’s become probably my very most like treasured thing. I’m not a big things person. I’d probably define myself as a minimalist, but I love that space very much for a number of reasons.

John: That’s fantastic. Which I think leads into your “ands” a bit. I mean, just the outdoors. Have you always been into the outdoors from growing up as a kid?

Megan: Yeah. So, here’s the wild part. I grew up in the Midwest in northeast Iowa, in a little town in northeast Iowa. And so, climate there is an interesting conundrum. We have about two great days a year. And you really wanna be there for them. And my whole life’s quest now is to go visit my family during one of those two days. That’s a moving target, right? Sometimes you hit it and sometimes you don’t. But you’ve got this winter, which can be oppressively cold. Like we’re talking 30 below or whatever. And then you’ve got the summer, which, again, there’s like that one 12-hour period that’s beautiful and then it’s insanely hot. Really, really humid, like 90% humidity. And then the mosquitoes are like the state bird.

So that said, we were super hardy outdoors people because everybody in this community, for the most part, is involved in some form of agriculture as a way to make a living. And so, even as a kid, the adults in my presence were busy. They were preoccupied. They were occupied. These aren’t jobs. I grew up in town, but also assisting family members on farms and things like that. Like we associated the outdoors with sort of like work, and effort, and a good kind of like rewarding sweat, if that makes sense.

John: No. Absolutely. Yeah.

Megan: And we spent a lot of time as kids. Like we didn’t have money and I don’t— Really, I didn’t know a ton of people who even did. So we spent pretty much all of our time being outside, and doing things outside, and kind of creating our own fun. So, that’s how it started for me. And to this day, I can harness that feeling of what it’s like to come inside from outside. And it’s like that pure feeling is the best way I can describe it. I’ve always liked—

John: The fresh air, the blue skies, and just nature. Just being outside.

Megan: Exactly.

John: Plus, the freedom of it all. Like when you’re a kid especially, it’s like you’re not contained by walls. I mean, you can go as far as you could see. And I mean, the corn fields, and the soybean fields, and all that that you were running through and everything.

Megan: Yeah.

John: Yeah, that’s great.

Megan: Then as I got a little older, then I started to develop like different sort of maybe more intentional hobbies. So I had a family friend who was super into mushroom hunting, and she would take us out, and we’d go wandering through the woods. It’s not like living in the Pacific Northwest where I can be a little more hardcore in hiking ’cause it’s Iowa. I didn’t mean for my voice to drop there. Somebody from the Iowa PR board is gonna call me.

John: They know. I’ve been to Dubuque many times. I’ve been to Des Moines many times. They have the world’s largest truck stop on I-80.

Megan: Yes, yes, they do.

John: And there you go. It’s a tough sell.

Megan: It is a tough sell, but there is something peaceful about that being out there and just wandering around in wooded areas looking for mushrooms, which sort of maybe you never find them. And maybe that wasn’t really the point. If you do, if you enjoy morel mushrooms, it’s no better snack if you’re into that. But mostly, it was just the concept of being outside. And she ended up becoming a real mentor to me in my life. She said to me one Sunday afternoon, she said, this is how you relax, Megan. This right here. A lot of people will sit inside in front of their television set. Don’t do that. This is how you relax. And for whatever reason, that just always stuck with me, probably because it hit something inside of me that was already there, and it was really resonant. From that point forward, it was like she spoke aloud something that I knew. You know what I mean? And that’s been the way I relaxed my whole life, is being outside.

John: That’s awesome. And how important is it to have that relax? I mean, especially when you’re the CEO, and as you work up through, I mean, law school and all this other stuff, like that’s really intense, and busy, and time consuming, and important decisions. Most people would be like, well, just more work. Like why do you have this relax side? Like how important is that to you?

Megan: I think if you are somebody who’s what I would call in a profession of high functioning, however you define that, whatever that is for you— For me, I’m obviously a CEO. And before this, I was an attorney. That’s my level of high functioning. You could be a kindergarten teacher and probably need it three times as much as me.

John: Amen to that. For sure.

Megan: But whatever it is, there’s a certain element of who we are as people that needs to have something fresh happen to us. Fresh air, the wind across your face, the feeling of whatever the environment is. I challenge people. I travel a lot. And in every environment I’m in, I can find some element of the nature there that just happens to be exactly oddly what I need in any given moment. But I think it’s important to do something that expands you as a person and makes you feel small. And I can’t think personally of anything that does that more than literally the ultimate big, which is nature. So I think it’s important for everybody to do that. I think it’s a good ego check. It can blow the cobwebs off your mind.

And I know I’m not alone specifically in the CEO and executive space being a person who says, hey, it’s not until I’m out on a run or a hike, or even if I’m just kind of feeling a little bit weak or lethargic, even a slow walk outside, that some of my best ideas come to me. And I don’t know the exact alchemy for how that happens, but I know that it’s real. And I know other people would say the same thing.

John: That’s so fantastic. And I love that ’cause, I mean, the CEO, you’re at the top. I mean, it’s like I’m the big dog here. Like I’m in charge. And then to be able to take yourself and be small. And like you said, the ultimate small of out in nature and just in the great outdoors, it’s just so refreshing to hear that perspective shift of, you know what, it’s okay to be vulnerable, it’s okay to be not the alpha, it’s okay to not be in charge of everything. It’s more than okay. It’s almost mandatory to have that refresh, I guess, and get those ideas going.

Megan: Uh-huh.

John: Yeah. I love that so much. That’s such a great perspective ’cause even if your hobby’s painting or something else, like even if you’re not good at it, it’s good to be not good at something basically is what I’m hearing.

Megan: Exactly. And to be not in control. I mean, I think the pressure from an executive perspective, I’ll speak it and I think I’m not alone, this sense of having the weight of the world on your shoulders and a very real sense of, at least what I have, stewardship, responsibility, accountability to the people who work for me and the people who rely on my company for their business. That can be heavy. And it’s also true that it’s lonely, right?

John: Yeah, absolutely.

Megan: With more comes more and all of that is true. But I find, oddly enough, like huge comfort in not being in control and being sort of overpowered. And I mean that in like the most generous way. I’ll give you an example. This last weekend, my wife and I were hiking. We actually were in Utah. We went to the top of a peak that was— I think it was 9,600 feet or something like that in elevation. So you finish quite a bit above the tree line. So we’re at the top of this peak and the clouds open up, and it’s the kind of rain that hurts.

John: Yeah. ‘Cause you’re closer to it.

Megan: That’s right.

John: And it’s coming down kind of hard, and the wind is whipping, and your hair is like being ripped out of your head by this wind. And again, it’s not even like the highest place that either of us have stood, but we had this moment where we looked at each other. And we looked around and we were like, oh my gosh, like we need to be mindful of the fact here that we are 100% overpowered in this moment. You’re standing above the tree line. There’s dark thunder clouds rolling in. You’re kind of like in a vulnerable spot. So, what’s the answer? You gotta get down.

John: Yes. Quickly.

Megan: Yeah. The getting down should happen post-haste.

John: Right. Yes.

Megan: But if you move too fast, you’re gonna roll an ankle or whatever. I mean, the last part of this was kind of a scramble across some rock and things like that to get to the top. So it was this interesting thing. I remember having this moment of clarity of being like I have to very slowly get down fast.

John: I love that.

Megan: You know what I mean?

John: Yup.

Megan: And it was like we both were just sort of crab crawling down this thing to just very slowly get down fast. And there’s nothing about it that I can control in any of it except myself. You know what I mean?

John: Yeah.

Megan: Literally watch where your left foot goes, watch where your left hand goes, all of that, and just being very, very intentional about those little, little things. And then the moment of relief, getting to the tree line and kind of tucking yourself in there. Like obviously, then you’re much drier and a little safer I guess, but it felt good. It felt good to not be in control of really anything except myself. And I think that as business leaders, like we need that a lot more than we probably would care to admit, but I think we’re more fed and nourished as leaders in doing that than we know.

John: No, I love that example. That’s so great. That’s so funny of like go down quickly, slowly, or whatever it was. It’s just like that helps put things in perspective then. When you are the CEO and there are big decisions to make that have to be made quickly, you’re able to slow down because you’ve exercised this muscle figuratively in other activities that you’re like, okay, I can do this.

It’s not gonna be chaos or whatever because I’ve done something similar to this before many times, but it’s a such a great perspective to have. And how important it is, do you think, for your people to have outside of work interests or whether it’s outdoors or something else? Like how crucial is that to you?

Megan: It’s essential. Like it’s absolutely 100% essential. I think a lot of people come to the workspace thinking that what their CEO, or boss, or whatnot wants them to have is this like unmitigated, unrelenting dedication to work. And I do want that in some sense. I want you to be into it. I want you to work really, really hard. And I’m not gonna lie, I’m running a for-profit corporation. Like we do have to do that.

John: Right. Yeah.

Megan: But if you have nothing else going on besides that, you’re gonna flame out really, really quickly. And I don’t want that for two reasons. What ends up happening— Somebody described me as a human capitalist ’cause I am. Like I fall in love with the lobsters in the tank. You know what I mean? I named them the Red Lobster. Like what happens with people that come to work at my company is that I believe we’re not a family, but we are a community, and I care for them. And so, when I start to see them burn out, it hurts me in a way. It also hurts our business, which is the primary objective. And I’m very clear on that.

It’s my job to make sure that this is a thriving enterprise. It’s how they pay their bills. It’s how they support their families. And the same is true for me. And the same is true for the companies that rely on us. And so, we all have to take care of ourselves so that we’re not essentially rubbing ourselves to the grindstone. That and I just think like for what? I mean, if you have nothing else going on, then then what are you doing this for? You should enjoy this. But in sort of your words and then what else? Because I think everybody has to have some sort of meaning outside of work, I would hope.

John: And then you’re so right. I mean, if you’re not living your best life, you’re not gonna do your best work.

Megan: Absolutely.

John: And gone are the days where organizations pay you and then we’re good, see you. No. Now, it’s like, hey, are you living your best life? And I hear it from you. It’s like I care about my people living their best life. And if they’re not, then we need to help you to make sure that you’re doing this. ‘Cause if work is eclipsing joy too much, then it’s not good for anybody. That’s such a great perspective to have that I wish more people would. I wish that was more the default of just care like really at the end of the day.

Megan: I think it’s there, but I think sometimes we get confused as CEOs. Like we have a lot of pressures too.

John: Oh, yeah.

Megan: And you know this. Like maybe the care gets eclipsed by the shareholders, or the bank, or whatever your external pressure du jour is. I think care is always there, but I think we have a responsibility as leaders to like protect that and nourish it too, and make sure that we’re not getting out so far ahead of our skis that then we crumble under that too.

John: Yeah. And lead by example as you are, which is really cool to hear. And have you always shared your “ands” through your career or is it something where, well, now you’re at the top, I’m able to type of thing? Or is it something that you’ve always been open about of like this is Megan, take it or leave it type of thing?

Megan: I think I’ve always been really transparent and really authentic, and probably before I knew that I shouldn’t do, you know what I mean?

John: No, same. Like I did it on accident. You asked me what I did. I told you I didn’t know I was supposed to say nothing.

Megan: Yes. It’s interesting because I read a book once by an author. Her name is Glennon Doyle. I don’t know if you know her, but she was talking about being in a space where somebody asked— And I’m gonna butcher this. But somebody asked the question like how are you doing? And she answered honestly. And then she looked around at everybody’s faces and she was like, oh, we’re not doing that here. It resonated with me because I was like I’m that person who will be like, oh my gosh, did you see the sunrise this morning? Or whatever. And then be like, oh my gosh, we’re not doing that here. And that’s okay. Like it’s okay to meet people exactly where they’re at. And if they’re not gonna do that, that’s okay. I can play in that realm, but I’m not gonna create a space at my own company where we’re not doing that here.

John: Exactly.

Megan: Does that make sense?

John: It’s the opposite. It’s a space where we are doing it. And if you’re not,—

Megan: That’s right.

John: …then what’s going on?

Megan: You won’t fit in.

John: Yeah. No. Amen. And that’s so great to, you know, now that you are in charge, it’s like, well, now we can make it what we want and let’s make it what it should have always been. ‘Cause I truly believe that those kind of environments, people thrive, it’s better for everyone. It’s a little harder to manage ’cause now you’re managing individuals as opposed to you can’t hammer everyone flat, but the reward is so much greater on that effort. So it’s cool to hear that— It’s a real example. I’m not like a Harvard case study make-believe guy. It’s like, no, no, this is real and it works.

Megan: It is real. You’re right. And the truth is it’s a lot more profitable that way. Again, you cannot do well in your role and say I don’t care about the bottom line and I just want people to feel good.

John: No, no, you’ll be out of business in 2 weeks. I’m like, yeah.

Megan: So I care very much about that. But one of the things too that I think is super important to recognize is it’s okay for your job to feed your “and.” It’s okay for you to wanna be a person who is profitable. It is okay for you to be an employee who wants that next bonus, who likes creating more wealth for yourself, whatever that is. And we do a fair amount of that here too where we take the shame out of wanting to be successful too because it is both “and.” You should want all that. And you should have moments where none of that really matters.

John: Yeah, I love that.

Megan: You know?

John: Yeah. I love how you said it earlier. Like what are we doing this for? You know, at the end of the day, is it collecting dollars? ‘Cause then at the end, like what do you use this for? Like what are we doing this for? Like just to count them? Like that’s weird. No, no. Like we wanna be up on the top of a mountain, and we wanna be just scuba diving. We wanna be just watching birds and being like how do you do that and why can’t I? Like we want all the little things that matter, and it makes teams better. And you actually know the people that work with you as opposed to just their job titles, which is fantastic. So do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that maybe is like, you know, I’ve got a hobby, but no one caress ’cause it has nothing to do with my job?

Megan: I would just tell everybody about your hobby. I would tell ’em anyway. You know what? You’re gonna find somebody that it lands on. And I think that that is sort of the same words of encouragement that I even in this present moment give myself, which is you have to show up and be authentically who you are because you might not be for everyone, but you will be for someone. And if you don’t get honest about who you are, you will miss that someone who needs you. And I would just encourage anybody just to say it. I don’t know why we don’t do more of that.

I think we’re missing some connection there when we do, but you’re here for some reason. And in every interaction, someone needs something from you, and you need something from them, and you cannot access that if you’re timid hiding in a corner. And again, I don’t say that from a position of judgment or having it all figured out. This is my life’s quest to push myself constantly to continuously do that. So I say that as a fellow traveler on the road with everybody else, but I think it’s desperately important, especially in today’s day and age. We’re missing like authentic connection.

John: Very much so. It’s that surface level kind of nonsense where how are you? Fine, fine, man. And it’s like, no, really what’s up? Like how are you doing? Or the what’d you do this weekend? And you know, I’d be like, well, I did a comedy show. And then they’re like, wait, you did what? And I was like, well, oh, I wasn’t supposed to say that part. I didn’t realize. And then all of a sudden, now the whole office knows. That’s the kind of thing though. But now, people remember me, and we work too hard to not be remembered. Like come on now, like leave your thumbprint on something here. Like make a mark.

Megan: Yeah. For sure. And more importantly, there’s some person sitting in the back corner quietly like connecting with you who will come up and ask to be at a comedy show next time and then you’ve done it, right? You’ve done the thing. You’ve connected.

John: No. Exactly. Exactly. And that’s why we’re here, is that human connection. And it’s not happening over sharing Excel macros or whatever the latest law, whatever nonsense is. It’s over genuine what actually lights you up. And sometimes it’s work, but sometimes work doesn’t light me up. But hiking lights me up all the time or whatever it is. Whatever your “and” is. So, lean into that more. So I love that. That’s so great. So great. Well, I feel like before we wrap this up, I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning, so it’s only fair that we turn the tables, put me in the hot seat. We make this the Megan podcast and let it rip. So I’m all yours. Whatever you got for me, ask away.

Megan: All right. Well, I’m gonna reverse your question on you ’cause this is how I tell who a person is. Does the toilet paper go over the top or underneath?

John: Yeah, it’s definitely over. Absolutely over.

Megan: Okay.

John: I mean, the patent is over, although I did hear that the reason why they did the patent this way is because you use more of it. And so, it encourages you to use more so then they sell more, which I completely believe in a capitalist society that they’re like, no, no, no, no. I mean, that’s why they sell you baking soda and tell you to pour it in the drain. It’s all that stuff, but I just think a lot of people—

Megan: But also, we all know that if it’s underneath, you’re a psychopath.

John: Right. Well, there’s that too. Or a cat person I found out also from doing the podcast asking so many people.

Megan: Oh, sure.

John: But I think that’s the same. I mean, if you’re a cat person, you’re also a psychopath. So, either way.

Megan: Could be. Could be.

Megan: It’s the same. I’m not gonna comment. I already bagged on Iowa and I’m gonna have a mob after me for that.

John: Those Iowa cat ladies are gonna come at you.

Megan: They’re coming strong.

John: They are strong. They are strong. They’re hardy. They’re hardy. They’ll get you.

Megan: All right. Dill pickles or sweet?

John: That’s good. I’ll go dill. I think it goes on more things and can also standalone.

Yeah, I think I’ll go dill.

Megan: All right. Are you a control freak or not? Is it an automatic or a stick shift?

John: Oh, well, the car I own is an automatic because it’s impossible to find manuals anymore, but it is fun to drive manuals on occasion. It depends on the purpose, but I think that manual’s a little more fun ’cause then you can control it a little bit more. It’s a little less breaking, a little more like, whatever, let’s see what this thing’s got type of thing. You don’t have to shift in the range. No, you can ride that gear a little bit longer. Like it’s a little fun with it.

Megan: All right. And final question, if you had to name in just your mind, your experience, your life experience, the single most important quality for somebody who leads, what would you say it is?

John: Wow. I guess vulnerability. And that like kind of encompasses authenticity and encompasses the sense of humor. It encompasses genuineness. It encompasses not having to be the alpha and know everything all the time. I would probably say vulnerability. I mean, a little tip of the hat to Brené Brown as well because it just makes people want to follow you instead of have to follow you. And so, you’re an actual leader instead of a manager type of difference. So that’s what I would say. And it shows up in all those different ways, so whatever that is to each person, which is cool. So, yeah. And then you’re certainly showing vulnerability when you’re on the top of a mountain. That’s for sure. It’s like here we go. This is it. Like here we go.

Megan: Maybe idiotically vulnerable in some places, right?

John: You could choose your adverb before it. Like it’s cool. Like whatever.

Megan: Read the weather report lady.

John: Right? Well, I mean, I live in Colorado and I hear about these fourteener people. And they have to start at like 4 a.m. and get going because at 2 or 3 in the afternoon, lightning comes, and you’re the only thing that’s taller than 2 feet. So you’re getting struck. And so, yeah, you’re up there and then it’s like, all right, and then you gotta run back down. And I’m like, you know, I’m just gonna look at the pictures. We’re good. Like I don’t need to do that.

Megan: You’re like I got the Nat Geo app. I’m solid.

John: Pretty much. Yeah. Like I’m good. Like I’ll do other stupid stuff. But you know, don’t get me wrong. Like I’m certainly not living in a bubble, but I’m like I got my own stupid stuff to do. Not that one. This has been so much fun, Megan. Thank you so much for being a part of What’s Your “And”?

Megan: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

John: Absolutely. And everybody, if you wanna see some pictures of Megan in her outdoor spaces or connect with her on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. Everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. And don’t forget to check out the book. So, thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.