Episode 583- Mark Mirsky

Mark Mirsky:

Hi, I’m Mark Marsky, and when I’m not coaching soccer, I’m listening to John Garrett on what’s your end.

John Garrett:

Welcome to episode 583 of what’s your end. This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. And to put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and. Those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work. It’s the answer to the question of who else are you beyond the job title. And if you like what the show’s about, be sure to check out the award winning book. It’s on Amazon, indigo, Barnes And Noble, Book Shop, a few other websites. All the links are at what’s your and dot com. The book goes more in-depth with a research behind why these outsider work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon. and more importantly, change in the cultures where they work because of it. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right. This voice reading the book. Look for what’s your end on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every weekend. This week is no different my guest, Mark Murzke. He’s a tax partner with KRD outside of Chicago. And now he’s with me here today. Mark, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on what’s your end.

Mark Mirsky:

Thanks for having me. I’m excited.

John Garrett:

Oh, this is one of my hands too. So this is awesome. This is gonna be super awesome, but I have 17 rapid fire questions get to know Mark on a new level here. So maybe this is an easy one. I don’t know. Favorite color.

Mark Mirsky:

Royal Blue.

John Garrett:

Royal Blue. And there you go. Very specific. Okay.

Mark Mirsky:

Versus sky blue. There’s a reason for that.

John Garrett:

Oh, okay. Alright. What what’s the reason?

Mark Mirsky:

Well, blue has always been a favorite.

John Garrett:

Yeah.

Mark Mirsky:

But sky blue is Manchester City.

John Garrett:

Right. So I don’t like the sky blue. Which comes back to the soccer. There we go. How about a least favorite color? Maybe it’s the sky blue. I would say sky blue

Mark Mirsky:

for sure.

John Garrett:

That works. We answered a 2 in

Mark Mirsky:

1.

John Garrett:

How about puzzles, sudoku, crossword, jigsaw puzzle, or maybe Wordle, don’t know what else is out there.

Mark Mirsky:

I like sudoku. sudoku. I mean, I’m a numbers person. I like them, but it also gets me to just clear my head.

John Garrett:

Yeah. That’s actually how I do my tax returns is Sidokos. Like, it’s like, oh, there’s no 7 here. Let’s put yeah. Why not? Like, what do you want the number to be? I think a lot of people do them that way. I was never in text. That’s why. Oh, is this a fun one? Chocolate or vanilla?

Mark Mirsky:

vanilla, for sure.

John Garrett:

Okay. Alright. There you go. Since you’re outside of Chicago, you guys have trains. So planes, trains, or automobiles.

Mark Mirsky:

I would say trains, but not in the US. I would say European train systems are phenomenal.

John Garrett:

Yeah. They’re nice. super nice.

Mark Mirsky:

It’s fast. And they’re always on time.

John Garrett:

And always on time. Yes. Yep. And quiet. Yeah. No. That yeah. I I’m with you on that one. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Mark Mirsky:

Probably Tom Hanks.

John Garrett:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. He’s — I

Mark Mirsky:

really like Tom Hanks. Just about anything he’s been in, I enjoy.

John Garrett:

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. can back that on for sure. Star Wars or Star Trek,

Mark Mirsky:

for sure.

John Garrett:

Yeah. Me too.

Mark Mirsky:

Yeah. In fact, in my my family is getting into all the ancillary things now on Disney Plus where you don’t we’re going or watching the andors and all these other things. And my son sells sounds me all the new episodes are out of my head. No idea. You know? And they’re they’re still making that stuff. I can’t believe it.

John Garrett:

Exactly. There’s a baby unit. It’s like, what Like I know. Regular Yoda was awesome. Now there’s a baby person that’s crazy. Your computer, more of a PC or a Mac.

Mark Mirsky:

PC.

John Garrett:

PC. Yeah. Me too.

Mark Mirsky:

Yeah. I’m in business. I mean, Max really don’t work as well because so many products on Microsoft products. Right? And so they’re not as compatible. A lot of our clients use Macs. And whenever there’s a problem, I always say it’s just because you’re Mac.

John Garrett:

Right? There you go. There you go. or is this the fun pens or pencils?

Mark Mirsky:

Actually, I’m a pen person. Yeah. I don’t wanna erase things. You you just get it right the first

John Garrett:

time you do it right

Mark Mirsky:

or don’t do it. Exactly.

John Garrett:

Okay. There we go. Actually,

Mark Mirsky:

I usually type things out though, so I don’t do a lot of pen or pencil. And since I have to sign legal documents, it has to be pen.

John Garrett:

Yeah. It has to be pen.

Mark Mirsky:

Yeah. I typically use pen are all some typing stuff on my laptop or computer because I I can’t even read my own handwriting.

John Garrett:

probably should have been a doctor the way that looks.

Mark Mirsky:

That I was. I was premed for 2 years.

John Garrett:

Oh, well, there you go. That’s how you learned it. That’s how you learned it. Yep. That’s awesome. How about ice cream? I’m a huge ice cream junkie. In a cup or in a cone?

Mark Mirsky:

In a cup. Okay. I used to be a cone kid. growing up for the longest time, but now I so I I I try to eat less sugar and less carbs overall. That’s what I’ll say. But for me, ice cream is one of my weaknesses, but if I’m gonna do it, I’ll just get rid of the cone and have a second scoop.

John Garrett:

there you go. I love it. And then I I would use weakness or I just call it an and. It’s an and. Like, I’m passionate about ice cream. It’s an and. But, like, Yeah. No. It’s not a weakness at all. It’s an end. Like, this is this is a dimension of who I am. Like, it’s

Mark Mirsky:

—

John Garrett:

That’s true. — that’s awesome.

Mark Mirsky:

I grew up with it, and we had to have it every day for dessert growing up.

John Garrett:

That’s awesome. How about a favorite day of the week?

Mark Mirsky:

Probably Friday.

John Garrett:

Friday? Yeah.

Mark Mirsky:

Yeah. I I I like the weekends. Although I might stretch it to Thursday and say the weekends start Thursday. Right?

John Garrett:

Thursday afternoon. Alright.

Mark Mirsky:

Which was awesome and that, you know? Right. And summers here, even at our office, we have less work on, you know, with they don’t work as much on Fridays. Yeah. But, yeah, Friday is probably my favorite day because then I know I got some relaxation coming up.

John Garrett:

Yeah. No. That’s awesome. How about a balance sheet or income statement?

Mark Mirsky:

Balance sheet, for sure.

John Garrett:

Okay. can’t hide anything there.

Mark Mirsky:

No. You can’t. I mean, if it and if it reconciles, then I know the profit loss is right. Right? So I I’ve seen so many P and Ls. I can make a profit loss look good. Anybody can. The question is, is it right? Well, if the balance sheets are right, then I know the P and L is right.

John Garrett:

There you go. Okay. Alright. Alright. We got 4 more or 5 more. What was your first concert?

Mark Mirsky:

1st concert was Bon Jovi.

John Garrett:

Oh, yeah. Okay.

Mark Mirsky:

That was back in the eighties.

John Garrett:

Yeah. Very cool. That’s awesome.

Mark Mirsky:

It was a lot of fun, but then the girl I took right afterwards, she dumped me.

John Garrett:

So, no one. That happened to me with Hoodie and the Blowfish And now I can’t listen to Hootie and the Blowfish anymore.

Mark Mirsky:

I still like Von Jovi, though.

John Garrett:

Well, he didn’t go country on you. like, Darius’s record it. There you go. You’re right. You got that. We’re all good. How about a favorite number? 7. 7. Is there a reason?

Mark Mirsky:

Well, I would say so planned. We’ll talk soccer later, but, I played the 7 post college. That’s what I’ll say. Post college And that was actually my Jersey number, growing up with 7. So

Mark Mirsky:

—

John Garrett:

No. I mean, that’s mine as well. Same same reason. That was my Jersey number. How about a book’s audio version ebook or real book?

Mark Mirsky:

You know, this is gonna sound funny. I would say real books for sure but I don’t read. I I read very few books. Okay. Truly. I I don’t because all I do every day is read. Right? I’m reading in tax law that came out yesterday and doing research, and I’m constantly reading. But if I am gonna read, I do enjoy just the hard copy book In fact, I was just in California last week, and I read a book last week. Great book. Of course, I had something to do a sock but we’ll talk about that later.

John Garrett:

No. That’s perfect. 2 more toilet paper roll over or under.

Mark Mirsky:

Okay. So I grew up with it under, but I think over makes more sense.

John Garrett:

Okay.

Mark Mirsky:

That’s what I was saying. I do think over is all good.

John Garrett:

Yeah. Yeah. That works. And the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?

Mark Mirsky:

Favorite thing I own is my patio.

John Garrett:

accurate. Okay.

Mark Mirsky:

So, yeah, it it it’s a place where I can go relax, read. If I want, I can sun bathe We can entertain. It can hold probably sixty people comfortably. We’ve got a fire pit, a grill. It’s it’s relatively new. And it so it’s not that used. We haven’t had the big parties yet. So it’s coming, though. It’s coming.

John Garrett:

I like it, man. I like it. That’s awesome. Well, let’s talk soccer and especially coaching soccer, but then you played and then coached. So did you just grow up playing soccer?

Mark Mirsky:

So I didn’t start playing till I was about nine or ten years old. And, honestly, I grew up in south side of Chicago, Chicago Heights. and none of my friends, my close friends played soccer. I made friends playing soccer, but our first coach was from Italy spoke very little English, and he knew his stuff, and he was good, and that first fall season, because back then, back in the eighties, Sacker was just a once, you know, it was a one time sport. It wasn’t all year round. Right? So I grew up with this guy coaching me, and he kinda turn me onto the game, and it seemed fun. And it was good, and I can run-in. But then we played in something called the Northwest Indiana Soccer League, and we would lose games like

Mark Mirsky:

8

Mark Mirsky:

to nothing. 7 to 1. 10 to nothing.

John Garrett:

Yeah.

Mark Mirsky:

And then my second year playing and but we would keep coming back trying to learn. Mhmm. Well, that coach left. And then I had some guy’s dad. And, honestly, he came to practices and say, hey,

John Garrett:

go run a lab, guys. You know, he

Mark Mirsky:

was a all guy. Like, American football guy knew nothing about the game. And so we’ve learned from him how, you know, not to coach, I guess, I’d say, but we learned by losing. So we would lose 8, nothing, and then go back and try to mimic the guys that we played against And that’s how we taught ourselves. So until I got to about high school, I didn’t have, like, I was gonna say a real coach.

John Garrett:

Right.

Mark Mirsky:

And by then, those of us that know anything about sports today, by the time you get to high school, it’s too late to start a sport. Yes.

John Garrett:

You know

Mark Mirsky:

what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Like the technique you’re past your prime, you know, 5 through maybe 10 is where you can learn a lot with technique. And beyond that, you either have it or you don’t. So Unfortunately, for me, I it took me forever. So but I did enjoy playing the game even in high school, even though I didn’t have great coaches growing up. My freshman coach was awesome. And he’s the one who actually turned me on to coaching. So when I was actually a sophomore in high school, he called me Mersk. So he said, hey, Mersk. Do you wanna help me coach the freshmen girls? And I’m thinking to myself, you’re asking a sophomore boy if he wants to help with freshman girls. Okay. Yeah. And so I did. You know? But it was a great experience. Honestly, I’ll tell you, He was the best and worst coach I ever had. That’s why

John Garrett:

Okay. Okay.

Mark Mirsky:

that wouldn’t have been Sam in

John Garrett:

this. Right.

Mark Mirsky:

You know, he would call the women’s names or the girl’s names, you know, to You’d

John Garrett:

have to run, like, forever till you’re puking, and it’s like, That’s not. Well, yeah, he would make a

Mark Mirsky:

you can’t do that kind of thing.

John Garrett:

You know what I mean?

Mark Mirsky:

At the same time, the way he got their attention and the respect he commanded from them was tremendous. So I learned both at the same time, but I I helped him all three the rest of my high school career, and I’ve been coaching, honestly, all but 2 years since.

John Garrett:

That’s incredible, man. That’s awesome.

Mark Mirsky:

I love it.

John Garrett:

Yeah. No. That’s great. That’s that’s so cool. Yeah. I mean, I grew up playing soccer and then Like, I I guess when I went to college, like, because I I noted aime, I went to practice with them once because I had some friends that were on the team. And, man, I played 2 touch the entire time because I was they’re so fast, like, so fast. And, like, right as soon as you touch the ball, there’s guy right on you. And you’re like, what And then so it was just like, get rid it was like, keep away almost for me. Then I was like, yeah. You guys are obviously on another level here, but I’ll just be fans. and I’ll grab some team gear on the way out and see you. Like, you know?

Mark Mirsky:

Yeah. T1 is a different level.

John Garrett:

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And it such a great game though and such a great sport where, you know, you don’t have to be the biggest or the fastest or the whatever. I mean, to be a good player, actually, maybe bigger isn’t better. I mean, some of the best players in the world are tiny humans. I mean, and and so it’s cool to see how that’s, manifested in your life like that and and stayed with you from when you were

Mark Mirsky:

10

John Garrett:

to getting just hammered 8 to nothing.

Mark Mirsky:

Yeah. Exactly. I’m still am. You know, it’s funny because when I teach, accountants around the country, I always start out by saying I’m a I’m a coach, right? And I say, I coach football, but real football.

John Garrett:

Right? And then they go around and

Mark Mirsky:

I say, real athletes play soccer. Everybody else plays football.

John Garrett:

There you go. So offense

Mark Mirsky:

to those people that play football, I say it as a joke. In fact, when I thought in, Nebraska, I actually got booed on the stage. first time as a teacher, I’ve ever been booed.

John Garrett:

Nebraska is pretty serious about their football.

Mark Mirsky:

Yes. They are. Found that out the hard way.

John Garrett:

Yeah. They’re they’re very serious about it. Yep. But that’s all they got. You know, like, I mean, there’s no professional sport around. There’s no anything else. There’s corn. Right? There’s a lot of corn. There’s a lot of corn. That’s for sure. But that’s awesome, man. And so how do you make time for soccer in your life. Cause so many people are like, oh, well, I used to like to do this and I can’t anymore or whatever excuses we tell ourselves.

Mark Mirsky:

It’s funny. I, I, I think if there’s something you enjoy, you do make time for it. Right? For, you know, to me, family has always come first. So I’ve been fortunate. My kids have well, I don’t know if they’ll admit it today, but at the time, they wanted me to coach them. Right? And and so I did, and I was lucky enough to be able to coach them all the way up until high school. So one of the years I didn’t coach was when my son was a freshman in high school, at the club level, once you get to a certain age, there are no more parent coaches that have professional paid trainers. And so I didn’t coach that here, but you know what I did? I went to every practice. and I sat there at every practice. Now I had to be off to the side, and I’m not, I’m not, like, I don’t have the style of coaching where you coach every touch, every play, everything, it’s more about taking it in and then bringing it together as a team or you know, like, during a match, I’ll coach the kids on the bench and say, Hey, remember what we talked about in practice? Do you see these 4 out here? See what they’re doing? that’s what we’re talking about, or they’re doing the opposite of what we talked about. Right? So you can learn from others that way versus barking out on the field. because, you know, as a player, all they hear is, anyway, but for me, you know, being a CPA, for a while, I had my own firm. So I will be honest. I left, one of my former firms. It was a good place, but I left one of them. because the work life balance back in the early two thousands for people in our industry it was kinda nonexistent. So in order for me to do it, I just had to leave and go out on my own. So I did that back in about 2003 is when I left there and started my own firm starting in 2004. And when you own your own business, I mean, you think, okay, have all this freedom. Well, it’s quite the opposite. You have a lot less freedom because now your clients control you and you have and then use higher people, and it’s a lot more work with than just being an employee. At the same time, It was a passion. It was a priority, and I was able to spend time with my kids while doing something I loved, which was coaching. So it was like a double whammy, and I got, I got, I got lucky. And all throughout, and everywhere I’ve been, and so currently here at KRD, we do have work life balance. Our partners do have the ability to do things that we have partners who work remote during tax season, you know, and And so we understand that it is something that all of us have to find our end. Right? Everybody does. And If you don’t, I don’t know how you can ever enjoy what you do in your day to day. Because for me, I love what I do every day. I don’t expect everybody to be, you know, a tax freak like myself enjoying what they do.

John Garrett:

Yeah.

Mark Mirsky:

But you should enjoy your work enough where it’s not just a job, you know, and and I think if you can balance things appropriately, it gives you that opportunity. And and I, again, I just feel, I, I, I’ve been very lucky. You know, I, I, I kind of feel like I won the lottery by coming here to Krd by being able to coach my kids, having opportunities to actually coach at the collegiate level. You know what I mean? To be able to do these things, it’s just You put yourself out there, right, and you tell people you want it. And sometimes it comes.

John Garrett:

Yeah. Right. Really? because we’re so permission based. You know, I mean, I I’ve worked with some clients of mine helping them with their culture and work like that. And and they’re like, well, they didn’t say we could, you know, whatever. And it’s like, yeah. But they didn’t say we couldn’t. So just do it. I mean, they they probably didn’t say you could because they didn’t think about it. They’re too busy running the organization to try and think about like, whatever. You know? And and I love how, like, even in your office, I mean, you have flags in Brazil and Argentina flag. You’re wearing a jersey.

Mark Mirsky:

I’ve also got Serbia, Qatar, Mexico, and University of Illinois.

John Garrett:

Oh, there you go. Okay. But but that way then, when somebody comes into your office, those are conversational can openers. I mean, they’re like, what’s with the flags? And you’re like, grab a chair because this is not a quick answer. Like, this is that way then people know who Mark is beyond the tax partner job title, you know, and be good at your job, certainly, but it’s it’s important to have these other other pieces as well.

Mark Mirsky:

It is. Well, But to your question about how do you balance? I I tell my I’m proactive. So I tell my clients up front. Hey, just so you know, I do coach. So for instance, I’m a assistant varsity coach at local high school. So this fall, in fact, actually tomorrow. During summer, we have summer, like, just 6 days a week. It’s not that much time. But in the fall, I will be coaching. And so from about maybe

Mark Mirsky:

2

Mark Mirsky:

until 6, or sometimes a little later, if it’s a game day, I’m out of the office. Well, that’s during normal work hours, which So but I tell my clients my clients understand this. They also know that if they need something, they text me. I can call them in the evening, but I’m also willing to take weekend stuff. but that’s how I balance it. It’s it’s my choice. You know what I mean? So we do have to find balance. You gotta get your you gotta get the work done. Clients are important. and they are very high up the list. To me, family comes first. Probably our staff come second right after that, but then it’s a balance. F. And and to me, it’s gonna be the client in our end. That’s where I put it. You know, it’s gotta be part of what I’m gonna do.

John Garrett:

that, man. And and and having the staff you know, second there, that’s that’s great. Be indeed, that’s how you create those human connections as well is through the ands, you know, whether someone also likes soccer or not, they have something else that they like. And maybe if it is soccer, then, wow, you guys are best friends for no reason.

Mark Mirsky:

It’s so true. It’s so funny. Here’s a good story. So I was teaching for the Illinois CPA Society. She’s, like, 5 years ago, approximately. Yeah. I happened to be on stage, and I I introduced my self as coach Mursky. That’s just everybody calls me coach. Right? So I there is about a 1000 CPAs in the room. and I’m on a stage, which I’m not used to being on a stage, usually. I teach out the same level, you know, because I’m, I’m not used to it. Anyway, talk for 2 hours, tax technical stuff. This guy comes up to me afterwards. And I’m on the podium, and he he says, hey, coach. I have a question for you. He said, who do you like? And I just talked text. I go, like, Excuse me. He he said, who’s your team? And now he had a British accent. So I immediately thought, okay. First of all, I’m I’m an idiot. show to pick up on it right away. But I I told him, I said Manchester United. And then immediately, nobody’s perfect. I said, really, who do you like? He goes, arsenal. And I said, oh, it’s funny you say that my daughter is a huge arsenal fan. And then he said, well, how do the 2 of you live in the same house? one thing led to another. You know what? That next March, during tax season, I literally flew out to, London to go see manu play at arsenal. And this guy got us the tickets.

John Garrett:

That’s incredible, man.

Mark Mirsky:

So my daughter and I did. It was a daddy daughter thing, and it it was just a minute. But it’s all because I I said I enjoy it, you know, and I I told people what my aunt was and that connection occurred.

John Garrett:

Yeah. No. That’s that’s so incredible. Yeah. And he he wasn’t like, hey. Can you come to a tax demo for us? Can you, like, it was Hey, we know you love soccer and these are your teams. Come watch them play. That’s incredible. What an experience, man. That’s awesome. That’s very cool. Very, very cool. And and are there specific things that KRD does to encourage people or maybe you do to encourage people to to share their end or even just say it out loud?

Mark Mirsky:

that’s a good question to to say it out loud. We Well, first of all,

John Garrett:

we — — acknowledge that you have

Mark Mirsky:

1,

John Garrett:

you know, like, type of thing.

Mark Mirsky:

We try to. That’s what I’ll I’ll say this. We make sure that our staff are taking time off. Right? Because you don’t want people getting burnt out. And then when we have our we call them check ins midyear, at that point, that’s when we kinda talk to people about things. It’s it’s informal. It’s not an evaluation. It’s about how are you doing? What’s going on? You know, and and what are you gonna do this year? You know, do you have any vacations planned? What do you enjoy? And that’s when we get to learn we’ll say more one on 1 versus people kind of publishing out there with their end. That being said, when you hear that more than one person have similar interests, we do make sure, hey, did you know so and so also is in the bed too. Right? Whatever it may be. So we, you know, we have mentors here. We have coaches within the firm that help each other, that help the staff as they’re, maturing, growing up. but we encourage we we give a lot of time off. So from a work life balance standpoint, everybody has enough time. to find, figure out, and enjoy their hand. That’s what I’ll say.

John Garrett:

I love that, man. That’s so that’s so great. And it’s it’s like, yeah, when you have that one on one mentor type of session, like, let’s start with your end. Like, I know you love concerts. Let’s talk about it. Like, what was your last concert? And when’s the next one? Cause if you don’t have a next one, you’re not super excited about what’s happening. You know, like, it’s like, no. No. What’s what’s next? Like, let’s plan this out. Like, I wanna make sure that you’re doing things outside of work that you love to do because people forget what lights them up and then they their priorities get upside down and then Yes. They do. Forget that they even like to play soccer at all.

Mark Mirsky:

And then you see it in them too. Like, sometimes at work, they’re totally stressed. They’re they’re they’re short with people and things, you know, they’re not who you know they really are. And it’s because they’re narrow focused. Right? They they forgotten what they enjoy, and they’re not doing those things. And so it is so important at any any company for people to be able to find their end, do it, enjoy it, and never give it up. Right? I mean, to me, that’s probably, you know, the biggest benefit, and this is the selfish side of me coaching, to be fair, is, like, when a kid calls me up 10 years after I’ve coached him and says, hey, coach. Can I ask your opinion? They’re first of all, they’re still calling you coach.

John Garrett:

Right?

Mark Mirsky:

thinking of all, they respect your opinion. You had an impact on their life, you know, and it’s always it’s about their end. It’s about direction and and what I had a kid ask me. He’s like, coach, should I get a master’s? Well, I don’t know. You know, tell me more. turns out yet and another year of eligibility because of COVID. Right? And so it’s gonna cost them, you know, tens of 1000 of dollars to get a master’s degree is, like, is it worth it? I’m like, Honestly, do you love the game of soccer? Yeah. Okay. Well, who cares about money? It’s not about the money. You can pay it off. You’re he’s going into a good profession. He’ll be able mean, how many opportunities are you gonna get to play at the collegiate level? That’s what I told him, you know, and he’s playing, and he’s phenomenal player.

John Garrett:

That’s awesome. No. It’s it’s so cool, man. And and plus the coaching and the the playing even, you know, in a team sport. I mean, that makes you better at your job. especially at a partner level. I mean, you’re able to see people for all their different talents, all their different skill sets, meet them where they’re at, in the same way that you do with the all the players that are on the team. And and you’ve coached freshmen, girls soccer all the way up through collegiate, and, you know, this soccer. So you’ve coached all different kinds, and I’m sure that that makes you a better partner and a better leader at the organization.

Mark Mirsky:

No doubt. No doubt. I I I do believe anyone. And then this is not me saying this is all I look for, but people that have played team sports I will also say that I’ve been in the arts, like band or orchestra, because I was a choir boy in high school.

John Garrett:

So okay.

Mark Mirsky:

Okay. So I can relate It it’s similar to a team sport, depending on the school, but what you get out of it dealing with multiple personalities, dealing with conflict, especially in sports with referees who are good that are bad. In fact, I tell every kid I ever coach. I say, hey. The referee’s gonna be awful. shut up and play the game. Yep. If you’re good at what you do, you don’t allow the referee to make a bad call. Right? That’s the whole thing. I mean, if if if there’s a call and people blame games on a referee, well, what about the rest of the game? Why didn’t you put the ball on the net? Yeah. I mean, that’s not the referee’s fault. Come on. So, again, it’s about taking ownership, right, which in work we all have to do. at every level across the board, but trying to put it together, you know, and looking at systems, most, I won’t say everybody, most businesses have processes. Right? There’s a way to get things in the door, flow it through your business, whatever it may be, and then get it out the door. Right? It could be consulting. It could be manufacturing. It could be anything, but it’s all to me the same. It’s the same, but different. No.

John Garrett:

It is. It’s you’re exercising a muscle outside of work that then when it’s when you’re in the office, you’re like, oh, I do this all the time. It’s more reflex as opposed to having to think it through. It’s, yeah, that unconscious competence, I guess, type of thing where you’re you’re just you’re just accidentally aware of being good at it. you know, you don’t have to think it through because you got all the practice reps done on the soccer field. And so it’s like — That’s true.

Mark Mirsky:

You learn what works and what doesn’t. I mean, that’s the thing. You know? And but but to me, truly, you know, people that interview well will say they have an and. Best way to put it. Right? Think about it. The people that don’t are kind of They might have it, but never expressed it and can’t communicate it effectively.

John Garrett:

Yeah. I need to see these other dimensions to who you are. than just the 4.0 grade point average or whatever it is. You know?

Mark Mirsky:

Exactly. In our business, yeah, you need a lot more than just, book smart. You need some interpersonal skill.

John Garrett:

No. I love it, man. That’s so awesome. So do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that maybe they have an and, but they’re afraid to share it because it has nothing to do with their job.

Mark Mirsky:

I think you gotta do it. I mean, if you have an and it’s imperative. You you’ll never be yourself without doing what you enjoy. And if you have an and You gotta do it. It doesn’t matter what it is. And maybe I should qualify that and say it should probably be legal, but

John Garrett:

Right. Yeah. Legal and not taboo. Absolutely. That’s what I say when I’m speaking about stage is like, well, obviously, you know, it’s not, you know, like selling cocaine is my end. It’s like, well, let’s not lead with that one. Let’s go with something else. Exactly.

Mark Mirsky:

And then culturally, you have to make sure it fits wherever you’re located. Right?

John Garrett:

You could also just say you’re a big Diego maradona fan. You don’t have say you sell cocaine. It’s the same thing. There is.

Mark Mirsky:

Exactly. By the way, I have a picture. I went to the World Cup where he was coaching with him and Massey in the same frame. Yeah. I was able to take that.

John Garrett:

That’s incredible. That’s incredible.

Mark Mirsky:

It’s funny you said that.

John Garrett:

But that’s true, though. Like, yeah, but, you know, as long as it’s legal, you know, have it and share it. I love that. Absolutely. That’s awesome. Well, I feel like it’s only fair since I peppered you with questions at the beginning that we turn the tables We make this the Mark Murstke podcast. I’ll be your guest. Thanks for booking me. I I guess I booked myself. But whatever questions you have for me, I’m in the hot seat. I’m all yours.

Mark Mirsky:

Sure. Alright. These are kind of irrelevant to some of the stuff we’ve talked about, but what are you afraid of?

John Garrett:

Oh, man. That’s a great question. So, like, snakes for sure, because they don’t have legs and you don’t know which way they’re going, and they’re fast. And it’s like, that’s weird to me. So definitely snakes. And I guess just on a deeper level is just, like, not living a fulfilled life, like, just sort of existing and not living, I guess, would probably be something that I would be afraid of, you know, just those kind of regrets sort of a thing that you look back on and you’re like, oh, I should have. And it’s like, oh, no. Just but it’s it’s so hard in the moment to just jump. but or to do whatever, but it’s like, you know, I’d say on a deeper level, that that might be the the answer, but snakes, for sure, they’re weird to me. I don’t know why.

Mark Mirsky:

That’s too funny. Yeah. They freak me out too.

John Garrett:

Right? They just freak me out. It’s like, I don’t know.

Mark Mirsky:

we went to Brazil, and we saw that we we were walking around and we were going to the pool. And all of a sudden, there was this huge Blue, like, bright blue snake. Oh, you know, and it was, like you said, slue

John Garrett:

or anything all over me. I’ll just start Didn’t know what to do. It’s like, they can go in directions

Mark Mirsky:

or not. Exactly.

John Garrett:

It’s like, no. Like, what? Yeah. That’s just weird to me.

Mark Mirsky:

Makes sense. I was gonna ask you how you overcome your fear, but I guess that that leads to my next question, why why podcast?

John Garrett:

Oh, why the podcast? So, honestly, it’s because I look at what’s your hand as our message. It’s a collective. It’s not my message. It’s not I did this and I, whatever. It’s, no, no, we’re all living this. We all have ands. We all have or 92% based on my research, have ands. So, like, let’s blow the doors off this thing, you know, for so long that 8% has bullied the rest of us to believe that we have to act a certain way and behave a certain way and, you know, wear work on our shoulder 247 and you know, and if you have an and, why? And if you do, god forbid, you talk about it. And it’s like, no. No. Like, almost all of us have one. We’re just not talking about it. And so the more that we share it, there’s a twenty two year old me that needs to hear that and a twenty two year old you and a twenty two year old, you know, other people that need to hear this. to see that, like, we’re human beings working a job. We’re not accountants playing a human. It’s it’s no. No. We’re human first and foremost and throughout all of it. And soccer’s gonna be with you forever. You know, what you worked at different places. You had different titles, different roles. Soccer was always an end for you. Always. Technologies changed. you know, the logo and your golf polo has changed. Like, oh, that’s changed, but soccer’s always been there. And it’s important that we have that source of confidence and that identity. And so that’s where the podcast just became with let’s share all of our stories.

Mark Mirsky:

Oh, that’s cool. So what made you leave the business world?

John Garrett:

Yeah. So that was May of

Mark Mirsky:

2005.

John Garrett:

That was my, Bastile day. I’m out of here. Who’s with me? And then I turned around, and I was all all by myself. But it was, kind of this perfect storm, really. of we had this new manager come in from the outside who wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. I’ll just say that to be polite and, like, no one respected him. Like, nobody. there was that. And so I was like, well, I’m gonna quit anyway. And then I also started to get really cool opportunities in the comedy world. was opening for Louis Anderson at some resort casinos. We had just done the Borgata in Atlantic City at, like, a thousand seat theater, stuff like that. And so I was like, well, Let’s give it a go. And so I was able to call some people that lived in LA and that were well established. And they’re like, well, you have a CPA. and you graduate from Notre Dame, you could probably get a job tomorrow. Like, don’t worry about it. So why don’t you just give it a go? And so it was literally just run as fast as you can to achieve escape velocity to get out of the earth’s gravitational pull, if you will, or the good corporate’s gravitational pull. And then I was fortunate enough to be able to break out. Now that being said, I don’t think that you should turn your and into your profession ever because rarely are you good enough to then turn it into a living? That’s why it’s an and. But even when I comedy became my profession, I still had college football and soccer and ice cream and concerts and So I still had other things outside of that that I loved, you know, playing the piano and things that I enjoyed. So even when that becomes your end, or you’re able to weave it into your corporate, you need other things outside of that. I think that’s important. So that’s why it was a perfect storm of all these things happening. at once, and I took the jump. And and then the end of it all was to get Mark Murphy on the podcast that’s the reason why I left corporate in 2005. I was like, I gotta meet this guy. Like,

Mark Mirsky:

18

Mark Mirsky:

years later. money.

John Garrett:

What’s taking you so long? Like, it’s

Mark Mirsky:

—

Mark Mirsky:

Exactly.

John Garrett:

Well, yeah. So that’s that’s really it. Well, good. Awesome question for you. Yeah. Absolutely.

Mark Mirsky:

Can we grab a beer when I come in town?

John Garrett:

Oh, 100%. Absolutely, man. Which I’m excited about who it’s coming up shortly. So, yeah, so when you’re in town, I will Probably not sit through your tax workshop if we’re cool with that. Okay. Okay. Alright. Okay. the the profession and I agreed that I should take my talents elsewhere. So plus I was never a text person anyway. But after the text workshopper before, I’m happy to to do that. So that that’s excellent, man. Well, thank you so much, Mark, for being a part of what you’re in. This is so much fun.

Mark Mirsky:

Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. It’s been great, and I’m just happy to be here.

John Garrett:

Everybody listening. If you wanna see some pictures of Mark on idelines or maybe connect with them on social media, be sure to go to what’s your and dot com. All the links are there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read the book. So thanks again for subscribing on Apple Podcasts or whatever app you use and sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.