fitness Tag

Welcome to Episode 445 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and”, those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that differentiate you when you’re at work.

If you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. The book goes more in depth into the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. If you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books.

Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast, so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Shannon Weinstein. She’s the owner of Fitnancial Solutions, a digital accounting practice serving small business owners all over the country, and now she’s with me here today. Shannon, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Shannon: Yeah. Thanks, John. Thanks for having me.

John: This is going to be so much fun. I have, get to know Shannon out of the gate here, 17 rapid-fire questions. This will be fun. Here we go. Star Wars or Star Trek.

Shannon: I’ve seen neither.

John: Okay. Okay. Fair enough.

Shannon: I’m criticized for that daily by my husband.

John: That’s awesome.

Shannon: Impartial. I will piss off someone if I say one of them, so, impartial.

John: That’s true. That’s true. Although the Star Trek fans can’t beat you up. No, I’m just kidding. Only because I’m a Star Wars. How about a favorite day of the week?

Shannon: I’ll say Friday.

John: Friday. Okay. Nice. How about your computer, more of a PC or a Mac?

Shannon: PC.

John: PC. Yeah, me too. How about on your mouse, right click or left click?

Shannon: I guess, left click?

John: Left click, making the decisions. That’s where it’s at. Yeah. Just pick this. All right. How about a favorite Disney character?

Shannon: I will say Megara from Hercules.

John: Oh, nice. That’s, yeah, the first time I’ve gotten that one. Good answer. Good answer. How about puzzles, Sudoku, crossword or jigsaw puzzles?

Shannon: I loved those logic puzzles where you had to decide what kid had what pet. Remember?

John: Oh, right.

Shannon: The box and the grid.

John: It’s like the matrix sort of a thing. Yeah.

Shannon: I loved that. I probably attribute most of my critical thinking skills at work to playing those as a kid.

John: That actually makes sense. Right? Yeah, because they would give you five sentences, and then you had to fill in all the things. Awesome. Yeah, you’re taking me back. All right. How about a favorite color?

Shannon: I’ll say teal.

John: Teal. Solid. Okay. How about a least favorite color?

Shannon: I’ll say brown.

John: Yeah, very unpopular color. I’m not even sure why it’s a color anymore. It’s so unpopular. I joke that I think brown’s just around so the color looks good.

Shannon: It’s so unpopular that M&M’s covered it up on all of them.

John: Right? That’s dead-on accurate. You can’t even argue that. Here we go. Favorite actor or actress? The Rock. Okay. Yeah, he’s super fun. Super fun. How about talk or text?

Shannon: It depends on what you’re trying to say. I am definitely easier to get in touch with via text.

John: Okay. All right. All right. How about diamonds or pearls?

Shannon: I’ll say diamonds.

John: Okay. All right. All right. How about, since you have the accounting background, balance sheet or income statement?

Shannon: Can I go statement of cash flows on that?

John: Oh, that’s the hardest one of all. No one even knows how to do it.

Shannon: No. No one knows how to do it. No one knows how to use it, but I think it’s the most useful one of them all.

John: Oh, it’s totally the most useful. Now that there’s computers, you just go to Reports print, and there it is, cash flow statement. Oh, that was my nightmare in college, for sure. Here’s a fun one, first concert.

Shannon: Oh, that was TLC.

John: Yes.

Shannon: And the original Destiny’s Child opened for them.

John: What?

Shannon: Yeah.

John: That’s nuts. That is crazy. Oh, my goodness. That is super awesome times two.

Shannon: Yeah, I got to see LaTavia and LeToya. Who can say that?

John: Right? That’s so good. That’s so good. I saw No Doubt open for Live. Everyone’s like, who’s this No Doubt band? Now, no one’s heard of Live.

Shannon: I’m calling that my first concert. I’m not counting Raffi when I was three.

John: Well, that doesn’t count. Yeah, that doesn’t count. Right, right. How about a favorite number?

Shannon: A favorite number? Nine.

John: Nine? Okay. Just because. All right. Yeah, that’s a good one. How about books, audio version, e-book or real book?

Shannon: Audio book. I listen to them on walks all time. Otherwise, I have no time to read.

John: All right, two more. Chocolate or vanilla.

Shannon: I’ll say vanilla.

John: Vanilla. All right. Yeah, yeah. The last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Shannon: My dog.

John: What kind of dog is it?

Shannon: He’s a red doberman.

John: Oh, nice. Very cool. Very cool. That’s awesome. Let’s talk fitness and everything that I don’t do. I’m a terrible person. How did you get just so into fitness? At what point did that happen? How did this all get started?

Shannon: Yeah, I ask myself that all the time actually. When did that happen? Because growing up, we were definitely like a Happy Meal family. Growing up, we were just, ate out all the time, got takeout, didn’t really pay attention to what we were eating. It was just a very lax, lazy type of approach. This was also in the ‘90s, where I’m pretty sure we ate chicken nuggets made of God knows what, TV dinners. We didn’t have the whole foods access that we have now.

John: Exactly.

Shannon: We ate a lot of, pretty much garbage, growing up, and didn’t do a lot of exercise. It really wasn’t a thing that was part of our lifestyle as a family. What I realized was, after I graduated college — the first time I set foot in a gym was in college, and I didn’t like it. It felt like a chore. It felt like a pain in the butt. What happened was my mom convinced me to go to my first ever Zumba class after I graduated college when I was living at home for about a year. She convinced me to go to this class, and I was like, this is silly. This is like old people, Jazzercise, Richard Simmons type of stuff. Because it kind of was. It was goofy. It was kind of cheesy when it first came out.

A couple of years later, I’m living in Boston at the time. I joined one of these women’s gyms, and I went to the Zumba class. I don’t know when it happened, but I was hooked after two or three classes. Because I took hip hop dance when I was younger and I was all over the structure of the class, learning the moves, it was easy to follow. I just lost myself in it where I was like, that was an hour already? We didn’t have the watches at the time, but I look at my heart rate monitor or whatever, and go, oh, my God, that was 500-something calories.

I did it because I loved it, and I found a great community in those classes, and met great people. We became friends around the classes. That’s the thing with fitness is you have to find your people or your thing that you’re happy to go to and look forward to. It was like people who go to church together or people who volunteer together. We went to dance together. I fell in, absolutely, love with it.

I also became an instructor. It turns out, I became an instructor, six months after I really started taking classes, three, four, five times a week. I was obsessed. The interesting part is I became an instructor in about August, September. My father passed away in December from pancreatic cancer. Why I’m telling you this is because, on his deathbed, literally told me, “Shannon, never get sick. Take care of yourself.”

John: Oh, wow.

Shannon: I hung on those words ever since. I was like, okay.

John: Yeah, seven days a week, I will do this.

Shannon: Yeah, orders received. I started eating better. I lost about 40 pounds. I just got my mind right and said, this is my life. I don’t want to end up like that. I don’t want to be a victim to things that happen to me. I want to take control of my own health. That was when I really pivoted into it.

John: Well, that’ll be a spark. That’s for sure. It’s so awesome that you found something that, the dance background that you so enjoyed, and it was fun and energetic, and then the community. Yeah, why not? I’m going to come anyway, so you pay me to do this. I’ll be the instructor.

Shannon: Yeah. I didn’t even think I was going to teach. That was almost eight years ago. I didn’t think I was going to teach ever, but they were like, just sign up for the thing so that you can come to the events with us. Because I was the only friend that was outside the gate that couldn’t get in.

John: Okay.

Shannon: You need to be an instructor to go to certain events and conventions and things. They were like, sign up for it so that you can come to all the stuff with us. I was like, okay, cool. I also love this. This will be fun. I’ll learn how to teach, but I’ll probably never teach. Eight years later, here I am, multiple formats and modalities, multiple trainings, and teaching other people. It’s crazy.

John: Yeah, you probably left all of them. They’re all at home eating pizza and ice cream. You’re like, I have Fitnancial. I actually named my firm that.

Shannon: Exactly, and I did because when I created my own business, I was serving my fellow fitness professionals with accounting and tax services. That became my industry and my expertise. I started marketing and actually using fitness analogies in everything I do. I still do to this day.

John: So good.

Shannon: I use it to explain very simple financial concepts to people because it actually is a very similar discipline.

John: That’s incredible because that’s a differentiator. Someone else can come in and provide small business advice or accounting or whatever, but I know how your business is and words that you like to use. I actually get you as a person. Why not let them know that side of you? That’s awesome. Was there ever a part that you thought, well, this isn’t work-related, never shall the two touch?

Shannon: Oh, no, I loved it. I actually would integrate a lot of it. I invited all my coworkers to my classes knowing they would never come, but I made it very well known that, I have class tonight, or I have class this morning, and I’m coming from the gym or I’m doing — I would say, I need to leave early today to go teach class. When Shannon has to go teach class, it was almost like I have an MBA class. It was no different than I have to go, and I have class tonight. Because that was a priority and that was a boundary I set to say, on these days of the week, I have to go teach. It was also a great way of seeing alignment in values with a company because I say, if me leaving for a half hour early on a certain day of the week, comes between me doing my job or not, then I don’t think you understand.

John: Me as a person.

Shannon: Right. You don’t think I’m going to get it done. I just loved integrating the two. I also did sessions at work for other coworkers. I actually led weekly walks to just get our asses out of the office and go do a walk around the campus. We were working in an office park, and I would do a walk around the campus and get everyone just to get out of their chairs, and do walking meetings together. Instead of like a big staff meeting, let’s just all go for a walk and talk while we’re there. We would get a mile and a half done every week. It’s something better than nothing, but we get a mile and a half done.

I would do stretch sessions at your desk, if you’re stuck all day. What do you do with your shoulders? How do you stretch your wrist, stretch your… They found that valuable. They also knew that Shannon was the, not the fit one, but the one that was fitness-focused. I actually had a coworker who, funny enough, bought a cheesecake at the cafeteria and was sitting across from me. She looked like she was covering her test, and I would cheat on her with the cheesecake. I was like, what are you doing? She’s like, I don’t want you to see what I’m eating. I’m like, I don’t judge any —

John: I’m not your mom.

Shannon: No. I probably have my own piece. It was funny because that became part of my brand was knowing that I love this stuff. I love dancing. I love — because why hide that? That’s part of who I am.

John: Right. No, no, I totally understand. I was the same way. I joke that I was too dumb to know that you’re not supposed to. You asked me what I did over the weekend. Well, I went and did this comedy show. All of a sudden, it’s wildfire, type of thing. Do you feel like there’s a skill that translates from the exercise and the fitness, over to make you a better professional?

Shannon: 110% yes because — if you talk about it from the perspective of in fitness as an instructor, for sure, because I had to teach a bunch of people who didn’t want to do what I was telling them to do.

John: Oh, wow. Yeah. You’re right.

Shannon: You tell 30 people to do burpees when and how many, and they just do it. You also — here’s the thing. When they just do what you say blindly, you don’t get an ego about it, but you get used to like, I command you do it. It’s like a Simon Says thing. What’s funny is — you can also jokingly be like, pick it up, let’s go, Carol, let’s go. It’s so funny because you get out so much of that, what you want to say, and it brings out your personality. It makes you show up differently with high energy. It also, what’s so funny is, when you get used to people doing what you say, you actually develop a confidence because they listen to you. They do what you say. Now you go into work. You’re like, we’ve got to get this done. It’s so funny because you show up with more confidence because you’ve been — you know this in comedy — you’ve been told yes without being told yes.

John: Right. Exactly.

Shannon: A lot. When you’re told yes a lot, you show up differently with confidence. Whether they’re actually saying yes, I will do that; the fact that they’re doing it, what you say, it instills all that confidence in you.

John: Yeah. For me, it was like, well, this can’t be any worse than doing a joke and no one laughing. This can’t be worse, but you’re exercising this muscle outside of work that then when you get into work, it’s like, oh, I got this. I do this all the time. This is great. You have to lead a group. You have to help guide them.

Shannon: Also, it was really a coping mechanism too, of, don’t worry, because I get the dance at the end of the day, at the end of all this stuff that I put up with at work. I stopped taking work so seriously because it wasn’t my only thing anymore. It didn’t bring me joy. I just said, you know what, we’re going to tolerate this. It’s going to pay the mortgage. Then we’re going to go home. We’re going to go dance, and we’re going to be happy. That’s it.

John: The more that you’re able to share that side of you though, then the more joyful work gets. You create connections with people at work where you’re like, wait, you like to do that? I like to do that. What? I didn’t even know, sort of a thing.

Shannon: Yeah. I’ve met a lot of people who have the same hobbies or found out that they have the same — it’s multidimensional. It’s not even just one or two things that mark you in a personality resume of, what do you like to do in your free time? We were just talking before you hit record about these bland corporate bios that are like, in her spare time, Shannon likes to spend time with family and her dog and go for walks. It’s like, great. Who doesn’t like that? What else does she do? What was the last thing that made her laugh really hard? What was the… I love asking questions. Instead of get-to-know-you things, I’ll say something like, hi, I’m Shannon, nice to meet you. What’s your name? Oh, it’s John. What are you grateful for? It’s a pattern interrupt.

John: It’s deep.

Shannon: Yeah, I know. We should be able to come up with something quickly like that. It’s a pattern interrupt. It also leaves a mark and keeps things memorable for you.

John: Yeah. I love that. That’s so good, so good. How much do you feel like it’s on an organization to create that space, to find out what people’s “ands” are, to shine a light on them, to celebrate them and make it normal? Or how much is it on the individual to just start that from the bottom in their little circle?

Shannon: I think it’s a mix of both. I think it’s also the corporation or, let’s say, the company or department, depending on what the structure is. It’s their duty to foster it and not let it die off and not discourage it. If someone is showing up with that type of attitude, and they’re trying to foster an environment like that, this is what happened with me when I started my walks. My department 100% backed it up. They were like, go on Shannon’s walks, this is great. They highlighted it and recognized it as a great initiative that I was doing. They promote — when we were talking about different stories, you do have to be forthcoming. I think the people who do have more of that extroverted “tendency” would probably have to be the first ones to speak up and share something like that and make sure it’s known that there’s a safe space to share, what do you do outside of work?

John: Right.

Shannon: Because I think there’s just this hard line we think is drawn that, well, we don’t talk about our personal lives at work, which, fine, to each their own. I think there’s something to be gained by getting to know your coworkers and people in general at a different level and finding commonality because I feel like it just brings you together a lot faster.

John: It definitely does. There’s research at Duke that shows it’s less anxiety and less depression, if you have these other dimensions to who you are. Northwestern has a study that shows that if you combine real life and work life, better moral decisions. It just makes you a better professional.

Shannon: Yeah.

John: It’s just cool to hear that you witnessed that, and also that there’s Shannon’s walks. You didn’t wait for permission from corporate on high to say, we’re going to do walks. You just, hey, we’re doing walks. I don’t need approval. This isn’t North Korea. We can just go on walks, and then you go. We’re always waiting for permission. It’s like, just go do it, and then everyone’s going to think it’s awesome. So many times, I’ve heard this. Yeah, it’s just so cool to hear that you did that. Kudos, for sure. Do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that feels like, well, I’ve got this hobby, but it has nothing to do with work, and no one’s going to care?

Shannon: I would say, if you have a hobby that you’re truly passionate about, and you wish that you could integrate the two, you feel like you’re leading a double life, that’s okay. If it’s making you uncomfortable to the point where you’re like, I just wish that they got to know the real me, then let that shine a little bit. It doesn’t have to be, let’s say you were into comedy, or you did comedy on the weekends like you did, doesn’t mean you have to go do stand-up at work. It doesn’t have to be literal.

John: No, not at all.

Shannon: It doesn’t have to be literal. You could literally ask in the cafeteria, hey, have any of you been to a comedy show? What was your favorite one? That is revealing enough. You can insert conversation on a get-to-know-you basis that’s just like, hey, I have a fun question. Or you can even — I wish I had done this more, where I actually could come up with cards or something, conversation starters that would have good prompting questions. Because just the idea to get to know each other, you don’t even have to make it about your other passion. I think it’s just getting to know what everyone else is interested in and acknowledging that.

John: Yeah, because I think some people, oh, were you just telling jokes? No, no, I had a job. I was doing my job. When I left at five or six or whenever, after that, I’m doing that and pursuing that. It was a fun hobby that I did at first, and then I accidentally got good. That’s the other thing too, is it doesn’t have to be a business. I enjoy this. Okay, great. You’re not doing it for anyone’s approval. You’re doing it for yourself. Yeah. That’s so good, so good. Well, this has been so much fun. I feel like it’s only fair that before I let you go that I turn the tables and let you pepper me with questions, since I started out firing away at you. I’m all yours, Shannon. Here we go. I’m also a lot nervous. What’s my favorite cheesecake? No, I’m just kidding. I’m just teasing. I’m teasing.

Shannon: Here’s what’s funny. I do rapid-fire questions on my own podcast as well.

John: Oh, okay. Nice.

Shannon: I’m actually going to start with the ones I ask my guests. I’ll just turn the tables back. They’re all around money and wealth, which is interesting. As an accountant yourself, I think this will be an interesting set of questions. What is one investment you currently can’t live without?

John: One investment. I would say it’s investing in me, if that’ll count. There’s this thought leaders group out of Australia, but they’re worldwide. It’s a lot of people that are on their own, doing their things. It’s been really cool to be a part of that community, very supportive, and also learning from each other. Yeah, that’s definitely one that… It’s super cheesy answer, I feel like. It’s not a financial investment. Bitcoin. No, I don’t know.

Shannon: Yeah. I love it when my guests give a ticker symbol. I’m going, no, no, no, no, no, no, that’s not what I meant.

John: Okay, good. All right, I was along the right path. Okay, I was just making sure.

Shannon: I do enjoy hearing the interpretation of what I’m asking as well, because that tells me a lot about the person.

John: Because it’s like, all right.

Shannon: Yeah, what do you mean by that? What is one thing you learned about money that turned out not to be true?

John: I guess just those self-limiting beliefs kind of thing when you grow up. My dad was career Air Force, and we were the middlest of middle class, kind of. When you start to do well, financially and stuff, that it’s not a bad thing. It’s okay and that you deserve this. You work hard, and you provide a lot of value. I think that that’s probably the deservedness of things, is definitely something that I still deal with. It’s not like I’m Richard Branson. Although I feel like once you cross a certain point, it doesn’t even matter anymore. I’m way before even the hill, but if I told my parents what I made, I think that they would lose their minds, just compared to what they had.

Shannon: Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. I felt the exact same way. What makes you feel like a millionaire?

Shannon: Talking to Shannon Weinstein. That’s a good start. Probably that and flying business class, an international with the lay down. It’s like, what are you crazy? I know you’re a huge stand-up fan, but just like Louis CK has a great bit of flying first class, and the Internet goes out. He’s like, you’re in a recliner in the sky. What is wrong with you? I’m laying down, full on laying down, watching TV. This isn’t even real, type of thing. I guess I’m a simple guy.

Shannon: The last one I have, because we talked about the comedy thing, is who your top three all-time comics are, dead or alive.

John: Oh, wow. Okay. I don’t know. I’m a huge Brian Regan fan. I think Bob Newhart is hilarious, also an accountant, so maybe I’m a little bit biased. Man, there’s a buddy of mine, Tommy Johnagin, that is so, so funny.

Shannon: I know Tommy.

John: Yeah, he is so, so funny. Even Ryan Hamilton is hilarious too, another buddy of mine. There are so many, Bill Burr, Chappelle, Gary Gulman, yeah. I prefer, typically, the clean observational kinda, just like you look at the world through a different lens, sort of thing. I never even thought of that, that’s amazing, type of thing. Not the shock as much but just telling it how it is and just that no fear is awesome.

Shannon: Yeah. I look at comics like restaurants where it’s like, what are you craving?

John: Right. Yeah.

Shannon: What are you in the mood for? Because I love my Mitch Hedberg at certain times and then I love my Bill Burr at certain times, and then my Lewis Black.

John: Oh, yeah, Lewis Black too, and also such a nice guy. Holy moly, such a nice guy.

Shannon: Oh, my God, so nice.

John: He’ll drink you into oblivion, but he’s such a nice guy. He’s so awesome and so funny even so angry. You’re right. It’s like a restaurant because everyone thinks that comedy is one thing. It’s like, no, no. You just don’t walk into a movie theater and just sit down. No. You watch the preview. You know what movie you’re going to see. There you go. It’s really hard to pick. This has been so much fun, Shannon. Thank you so much for being a part of What’s Your “And”?

Shannon: Thank you.

John: Everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Shannon or connect with her on social media and pick up her podcast, or check out links to her business and definitely her Instagram, go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there. While you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read the book.

Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.

Welcome to Episode 433 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and”, those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work.

If you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the book, also called What’s Your “And”? on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. If you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for the book on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. It goes more in depth into the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture and also to your mental wellness. I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such nice reviews on Amazon and more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it.

Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast, so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Aimee Keenan. She’s the founder of the ISV Society, helping ISVs collaborate with each other, out of her office in Barrington, Rhode Island, and now she’s with me here today. Aimee, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Aimee: Thank you for having me, John. I’m excited to be here.

John: Oh, this is going to be so awesome. We’ve known each other for a while now and finally get you on the show. I’m super excited.

Aimee: Me too.

John: Yeah, I have rapid-fire questions, things I’ve never asked you before that I probably should have, now that I think about it.

Aimee: Bring it on.

John: Here we go. Here we go. All right, I’ll start you out with a pretty easy one here. How about a favorite color?

Aimee: Favorite color would be peach.

John: Peach. Okay, that’s a first, haven’t had that one. All right. How about a least favorite color?

Aimee: Brown.

John: Brown. All right. Yeah, that’s pretty popular. Just even the word sounds not fun. It’s just like, brown. How about cats or dogs?

Aimee: Dogs.

John: Dogs. Yeah, me too.

Aimee: I used to be a cat person, believe it or not. Grew up with cats, but four years ago, changed my life when I got a dog.

John: Oh, wow. There you go. See? How about a favorite day of the week?

Aimee: I would say Friday.

John: Friday. All right. There you go. How about a puzzles, Sudoku, crossword or jigsaw?

Aimee: Definitely jigsaw.

John: Jigsaw. There you go. Yeah. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Aimee: If I had to go with one, I’d pick Star Wars.

John: Star Wars. Yeah. It’s the one that you know more about probably.

Aimee: Yes, by far.

John: Yeah. Computers, more of a PC or a Mac?

Aimee: Mac.

John: Mac. Oh, wow. Super cool. Yeah. I’m PC. I don’t even know how to turn a Mac on. Is there a button? I don’t know. Do you just look at it?

Aimee: There is a button actually.

John: Oh, okay. I figured you just tell it, turn on, and then it turns on. Or it reads your mind.

Aimee: I wish it did.

John: Yeah. Right? That’s the next version. Ooh, here’s a good one, diamonds or pearls.

Aimee: Diamonds are a girl’s best friend. You’ve got to pick diamonds.

John: Right? They certainly cornered the market with that phrase. That’s for sure. How about a favorite ice cream flavor. I love ice cream.

Aimee: Cookie dough.

John: Solid answer. There we go. There we go. Yep, get as many chunks in there as possible.

Aimee: Exactly.

John: Yeah, yeah. Ooh, talk or text.

Aimee: I feel like talking is better, especially with COVID and everything. Text is just. You guys could be on the phone.

John: The tone is completely lost, and this is going to go back and forth for 10 minutes, where it could have been 30 seconds on a phone.

Aimee: Yes.

John: I agree. How about a favorite actor or actress?

Aimee: Well, I’d have to go with Robert Downey Jr. because I’m a huge Iron Man fan. He’s just come a long way over the years and overcome a ton of obstacles and just really came around and became a really great actor, I think.

John: Yeah, and person.

Aimee: Yeah.

John: For sure.

Aimee: He’s just an amazing person. Yeah.

John: Yeah. No, totally, I totally hear you on that one. How about chocolate or vanilla?

Aimee: Dark chocolate.

John: Dark chocolate. Okay. Very specific. Very specific. This one’s probably a slam dunk living in Rhode Island, but oceans or mountains.

Aimee: Oh, definitely oceans.

John: That’s what I was going to say. How about your first concert?

Aimee: My first concert was Bon Jovi.

John: Nice. There you go. That’s awesome. Very cool.

Aimee: I had to think about that. I was probably ten.

John: The original Bon Jovi.

Aimee: Yeah.

John: The not dying his hair blonde.

Aimee: Outside concerts, it was outside and everything.

John: Right. There you go. How about a favorite number?

Aimee: I don’t really have a favorite number, but I will go with three.

John: Three? All right. Was there a reason?

Aimee: Well, they say bad things happen in threes, but I want to say good things happen in threes.

John: Okay.

Aimee: Just change that.

John: Yeah, I like that. I like that. Two more. How about books, audio version, e-book or real book?

Aimee: It depends on the book, I think. If I want to make notes and highlight and write things down, then I like hardcover, but if it’s just for reading purposes, fun only, then Kindle all the way for that.

John: Okay. Yeah. The last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Aimee: Favorite thing I have. I’m a collector of Disney snow globes. I have a ton of those.

John: Is there one that’s your favorite?

Aimee: I have one that’s probably the most rarest is the Steamboat Willie one.

John: Oh, wow. That’s super old school. Yeah. That’s awesome. That’ll be your Follow-Up Friday. We’ll talk about snow globes. You can’t hide behind this fitness nonsense. I want to hear about snow globes.

Aimee: Sure.

John: That’s super cool. That’s awesome. Let’s talk health and fitness and all that funness. How did that get started? I’m sure, as a kid, you’d had to do president physical fitness test and all that nonsense. After that, you become an adult. If you’re like me, you just stop.

Aimee: It all started with running, believe it or not. When the kids were younger, and all I could afford was some running shoes, then I took the streets and just ran every day. I ended up doing a lot of races, mostly 5Ks. Then it morphed into other things. As I got older, I went into the gym, started doing spinning and classes. Then they offered this triathlon training. I’m like, oh, cool. Wouldn’t it be cool to do some sprint triathlons?

John: A sprint triathlon, that’s just shorter everything?

Aimee: Yeah. Basically, it’s a half a mile swim, 13-mile bike, and then a 5K run.

John: Okay, all right. This is now more my speed. I like it.

Aimee: Yeah. I could never do an Ironman or anything like that. Forget it.

John: Right. I’ve got other stuff to go do.

Aimee: It’s a lot of training, yes, it is, learning those three things.

John: Good for you. That’s really awesome that you just stepped up and were like, you know what, I’m going to do all three. That’s really cool.

Aimee: I think taking a class and learning the right, how to swim, the technique, all that stuff, learning how to change a bike tire because you could get a flat on your race, just things you never think of. They prepare you for all of that.

John: Okay. Yeah. What was it like when you were, I mean, I guess the training is the most of it, but doing the actual sprint triathlon, that had to feel pretty invigorating.

Aimee: Yes, it did. I did three my first year.

John: Wow. Okay, so it wasn’t like you did one and then retired.

Aimee: No.

John: You’re like, no. You got the bug.

Aimee: I did get the bug for a few years, but then I stopped.

John: Well, no, it’s completely understandable, but that’s awesome. That’s really cool. Were they mostly in the Northeast there?

Aimee: Yeah, I learned that I like swimming in a pool versus the ocean.

John: Right. The ocean is not in your favor. No matter what direction you’re swimming, it is going against you, somehow.

Aimee: And you’re going from swimming in the lane, back and forth, to swimming with 30 to 40 people kicking and smashing at you, and you’re dodging.

John: Right. Don’t get kicked in the face. Don’t get kicked in the face.

Aimee: Yeah, you’re first one is really overwhelming.

John: I’ll just go last. You guys all win. I’ll be back here, and we’re good.

Aimee: I highly recommend a wetsuit for that portion just because it makes you feel more buoyant, more safe and secure.

John: Oh, yeah.

Aimee: What’s cool about it is some of them offer, when you run off the beach, they offer a strip person that will just strip that wetsuit right off of you.

John: Oh.

Aimee: Obviously, you have a triathlon suit underneath, and then you just run to your bike.

John: That’s a totally different race, totally different race.

Aimee: Totally different race. You run to your bike, get your shoes on, clean yourself up, dry yourself up and everything, just get on your bike and go.

John: Yeah, stuff you learn from either the class or doing it once, and then you’re like, oh, alright. Good to know. Good to know. That’s fantastic. Really cool. Do you feel at all, the fitness and health, in general, translates to work? Does it give you a skill that you bring to your career?

Aimee: I think it does because you have to have discipline and you have to have a mental fitness side of things also.

John: Oh, yeah.

Aimee: When you’re doing fitness, you’re bringing in all aspects of your life into it. That also translates into your job, what you have to focus on, mentally, physically, emotionally. That plays into your job as well, so I think they both can play hand in hand on that. Of course, just starting your day out that way just makes you more productive. You just feel good. You’re ready to take on the day, and I think gives you more mental clarity. Sometimes, actually, when I’m doing fitness, I think about things that I get ideas for work. Because being marketing, you have to come up with creative things all the time. When you get into that mental space in your exercise, sometimes it actually kindles some ideas that you get for your work.

John: That’s so true. Yeah. Because at no point in your education or training was it, hey, go exercise and train for sprint triathlon because it will make you better at your job. No one ever says that.

Aimee: No.

John: But there’s always a cool, accidental byproduct of the thing that you love to do. It’s cool to hear that you come up with ideas, and it starts your day well and gets you thinking right, and then you’re more productive. You’re better at your job.

Aimee: Yes.

John: At the end of the day, which is really cool. Is this something that coworkers know about or clients know about, throughout your career, that you share with people?

Aimee: Yes. Well, besides triathlons, I obviously exercise every day now. I do a variety of different programs. I’ve actually transitioned into at-home workout programs, and not because of COVID.

John: Oh, okay.

Aimee: Just because, so, five years ago, I did a half marathon, a Disney half marathon, which I highly recommend. It’s called the Wine and Dine.

John: Oh, nice. Okay.

Aimee: So much fun. They close the parks down. You run through, I think we ran through Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, and we ended in Epcot.

John: Oh, wow. Okay.

Aimee: They have bands playing on the route, characters. You can stop and take pictures with characters if you don’t care about your time. Yeah. I had trained all summer for that because that was in November. Mile 10 is where my knee really started to bother me, for some reason, which it never bothered me the whole time I was training, never had any issues. Mile 10, those last three miles were torture for me. I had to walk, run, walk, run, walk, run, until the end. After that, I took a couple weeks off to see if it would stop hurting. Then I started doing 5Ks again, and it still started hurting. I’m like, I don’t want knee surgery. It just became not fun for me now because I’m worried about my knee constantly. That’s when at-home workouts came into play.

John: Nice, and different things besides the running.

Aimee: Mm-hmm.

John: Yeah, and you grabbed a snow globe before you left.

Aimee: I did. I did.

John: Yeah, you did. You’re at the mothership. You’ve got to get one.

Aimee: I am.

John: It’s cool to hear that there are other things that you can do. It’s not like you had to give it up all together. It’s, well, I’m just going to do it in a different way. I saw some of the pictures that we have on the website at whatsyourand.com. The body bag is like punching or kickboxing or some kind of something. All I know is I don’t want to meet you in a dark alley. That’s all I know. Anyone who has a bag like that, knows what they’re doing. Because I’ll be flailing and then I’ll be down in about three seconds. That’s cool to hear that there are other things that keep you going. I would imagine, yeah, it comes up in conversation with people.

Aimee: Oh, all the time, which is kind of nice, in a way. I’m kind of known as the fitness geek or the fitness guru or the fitness crazy person, but they all say I inspire them. They want to do what I’m doing someday. It always comes up in conversations, always.

John: That’s super cool, though, because some people feel like, well, I’ve got this thing outside of work, but it has absolutely nothing to do with my job, so no one cares. Or I shouldn’t talk about it or whatever. You were the opposite. You were like, well, you asked, so this is what I’m doing.

Aimee: Right.

John: How much do you feel like it’s on an organization to create this space where people are allowed to share or encouraged to share, even; versus, how much is it on the individual to maybe start the circle amongst themselves or to jump in?

Aimee: I think it’s a little of both. If you don’t have a culture right now, where it is instilled, you could always start it. I find that a lot of cultures, and it could be because of COVID, that people are starting to be more open to these types of things because, hey, we are working from home. This is a different dynamic. Not everybody’s in the office all the time. We need to figure out other ways that we can connect and relate and just keep those working relationships going in a positive way, and learning about what other people do. There used to be time to chat around the water cooler but not anymore, so you’ve got to bring those chats to the Zoom screen, unfortunately. From a health and fitness perspective, what I’ve also noticed is a lot of companies now are offering incentives for working out. They’ll pay for your gym membership or half whatever you’re doing. I think, from a mental wellness perspective, companies should start thinking about having some kind of incentive for people to even dive into some kind of health and fitness regimen just to keep themselves sane

John: Yeah. That’s the thing that’s been so interesting with the past year and a half or so is just how the “and” can really help you connect with clients and coworkers and customers and whatever, but it’s even more important for just your own sanity, just to have something to go to that’s not work. Because since so much work is happening in your home, and homes weren’t designed for this, not everybody has a spare office, or it’s something that you could still see from your living room, so it’s always there. Having that thing to just completely unplug and get away is so critical.

Aimee: It is.

John: For companies to endorse it or encourage it, is even better because then it shows that we care about you.

Aimee: Exactly.

John: Do you feel like people are sharing more about their hobbies and passions now, on accident, because we’ve been in each other’s homes?

Aimee: I think so, just because you see kids running around now, and you see people’s homes in the background. Maybe they have pictures, or their pets are barking or whatever. It just ends up happening in the conversation because of that, too.

John: Yeah, because it’s all the stuff that we tried to.

Aimee: Hide.

John: Tried to hide, right. Yeah. We had this veneer of I’m uber professional person, robot lady or whatever. It’s like, no, you’re just a real person that has stuff. Yeah, we get deliveries, and the dog goes nuts. Doesn’t everyone?

Aimee: My dog does.

John: Right? No matter how well they’re trained, I’m still convinced that they think that the guy is going to break into your house. It’s like, they’re not, they’re bringing you cool stuff, all the time. It’s always fun. Have you ever come across other people that are training for things like you are, and so then you you help motivate each other? As opposed to, I know that there’s been plenty of people that, like me, you’re motivating to actually start, but people that are actually doing it that you can run with or train with, or things like that. I would imagine that relationship’s a little bit different than everyone else.

Aimee: Sure. Actually, when we did the sprint triathlon training, that was a great group of people. When we were training, we meet once a week, and then we’d also meet during the week. If anybody wanted to do running together, swimming together or biking together, we’d get together. We’d meet at the beach and get into the water because this is how it’s really going to happen.

John: Right.

Aimee: We would do that on the side, just with each other, to help each other get motivated and gear up and be ready and prepared for it.

John: Yeah, for sure. Some of those people are through work or coworkers or whatever, which is awesome. Yeah. I would imagine that, just by accident, the relationship with those people has to be just a little bit different than just everyone else.

Aimee: Exactly. Yeah. Because you have something in common with them so it’s just makes it that more relatable, when you’re working with them and hanging out with them, build a better friendship, as well as work relationship.

John: Yeah. That’s such a good point of you’re spending more time with them, so, of course, you’re going to just be more inclined, it’s more the oxytocin connecting you, subconsciously, just in your brain, you’re going to like them more. That’s awesome to hear, awesome to hear. I always struggle when I hear people that have barriers to why they want to share or rather don’t. Do you have any words of encouragement to people that have this outside-of-work hobby, and maybe it’s something crazy like sprint triathlons, but do you have any words of encouragement that it does matter and that it does impact your career and make you better at your job?

Aimee: Yeah, I think it’s so important just to humanize yourself with other people. If you’re sharing and getting out of your comfort zone, then that helps other people get out of their comfort zone and want to share. There’s nothing that’s not too crazy or outlandish. If it is crazy and outlandish, heck, that’s a great conversation. People are probably more engaged than if it was something really, I don’t know, mundane or whatever.

John: Right. Right.

Aimee: A funny story for you, I actually had my first call with the ISV Society. We had our first members call. Everyone went around and introduced themselves, and one of the things they had to say was what they like to do outside of work.

John: Awesome. Love it.

Aimee: Yeah, it was awesome. That was really what humanized the whole call was people just talking about what they do outside of work, and that just made it so much better. I wanted to tell you, I used your feedback from the book.

John: That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much. It’s just cool to hear that it works. I would imagine there are people that knew each other for years that had no clue that that’s what truly lights them up. Wow, that’s awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that because.

Aimee: Sure.

John: Yeah, I just write the book, and I don’t know what happens, type of thing. I work with some clients, so I’m able to see that a little more, hands on, but not all the time. Yeah, it’s awesome to hear that. That’s really cool. Really cool. Those are things that you’ll never forget about the person.

Aimee: Exactly.

John: Yeah. It’s like, what was their job? I don’t really remember, but they like to whatever. That’s super cool. That’s awesome. Well, this has been so much fun, Aimee. I feel like I rudely peppered you with questions at the beginning, so it’s only fair that we make this the first episode of the Aimee Keenan podcast. I’m all yours.

Aimee: All right.

John: Fire away, any questions you got for me.

Aimee: Okay, so who is your favorite Avenger?

John: Oh, my favorite Avenger. Is Iron Man an Avenger? Because it would be Iron Man.

Aimee: All right.

John: Not just because you brought it up earlier, just because Iron Man is just awesome. It’s like Batman but way cooler. It’s got all the gadgets but better.

Aimee: Exactly.

John: I would go with that. I almost had to Google it.

Aimee: Favorite dessert.

John: Oh, man, this is going to be hard. Yeah, all of them. Probably a brownie ala mode because then it gets more stuff, just warm brownie, dollop of ice cream, hot fudge, some nuts, whipped cream, cherry.

Aimee: The works.

John: Right. Yeah, that’d probably be pretty high on the list. It’s got the combo. Yeah.

Aimee: Okay. Well, since the Olympics are happening, what’s your favorite sport in the Olympics?

John: Favorite sport in the Olympics. Yeah, diving is always amazing to me. That’s always cool. The swimming is also interesting because it’s milliseconds, which is wild. I’ve always been an advocate, there’s a comedian who said years ago that they should just have a regular person swimming, so you can see, even the eighth place person is amazing. They lost by five seconds. It seems like they’re way behind, and they left you. It’s not even close. Diving is definitely, the fact that gravity and all the stuff, I don’t even know. Thank goodness for cameras now so they can slow-mo it.

Aimee: I know. The synchronized diving is crazy.

John: Right? Yeah, that’s the next level.

Aimee: How can they stay so in sync? It’s crazy. It is crazy.

John: Yeah. That’s the one where they even have, even getting up onto the platform is synchronized. Yeah, you guys practiced a lot for four years. It’s pretty much since the last Olympics. That’s awesome. Very cool. Well, this has been so much fun, Aimee. Thank you so much for being a part of What’s Your “And”?

Aimee: Oh, thank you so much for having me, John.

John: This is awesome. Everybody, if you want to see some pictures of Aimee in action, or maybe connect with her on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there, as well to the ISV Society. While you’re on the page, please click the big green button and do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read the book.

Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.

Welcome to Episode 299 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett. Each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And,” the things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work.

I’m so excited to let everyone know that my book’s being published in September. It’ll be available on Amazon, Indigo, and Bookshop, and a few other websites. Check out what’s your and.com for all the details. I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s listening to the show and changing the cultures where they work because of it and the book will really help to spread this message.

Please don’t forget to hit subscribe so you don’t miss any of the future episodes of the podcast. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. This week is no different, with my guest, Michelle Weinstein. She’s a sales coach with The Abundant Accountant and a host of the podcast with the same name. She’s known as the pitch queen. Now, she’s with me here today. Michelle, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Michelle: Thank you so much for having me. I think this is the most important topic to talk about is what we do when we’re not working. I’m a fan.

John: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I mean, this is going to be really, really fun. But I do have my rapid fire questions. Get to know Michelle right out of the gate. Here we go. This is going to be good. We’ll start you easy. Favorite color?

Michelle: Pink.

John: Pink, solid. All right. How about a least favorite color?

Michelle: Brown.

John: Oh, yeah. That’s a very popular least favorite right there. How about a TV show that you binge watch?

Michelle: Ozark.

John: Ozark? Yeah, that’s a great answer. Actually, man, that Season 3 was nuts, right? I was like, holy cow.

Michelle: Oh, I’ve watched Season 1 to whatever all within a couple of weeks.

John: Oh, my gosh. Your blood pressure must have been through the roof.

Michelle: It literally was. It was to the point where I believe sleep is one of the most important things that we can control it, and Ozark, I had to watch prior to about 6:00 p.m. Then after, I had to watch a funny YouTube video prior to going to sleep because there were about two or three nights I couldn’t even sleep. I’m like, why can’t I sleep?

John: It’s because you’re dreaming about drug lords chasing you down in the middle of the night. Yeah, totally, totally. How about — this is an easy one. Favorite comedian?

Michelle: My favorite comedian. Leo Flowers.

John: There you go. I knew that would be an easy one. Are you more of an early bird or a night owl?

Michelle: I’m an early bird. I can barely stay up past 9:00.

John: Oh my goodness. Okay, how about more pens or pencils?

Michelle: Pens. I don’t even have a pencil sharpener or an electronic pencil.

John: Yeah, that’s the hard part with pencils is you got to get the sharpener with it. It’s like we left those in 1989. How about puzzles? Sudoku or crossword?

Michelle: Crosswords all the way. I love crosswords.

John: Nice. Okay. All right. How about a favorite adult beverage?

Michelle: Arnold Palmer.

John: Oh, that’s a great answer. That’s a really good answer right there. How about more oceans or mountains?

Michelle: Oceans, 1,000,000%.

John: Okay, all right. How about a favorite number?

Michelle: The number 10.

John: Is there a reason?

Michelle: I like to say it in Spanish. Diez.

John: That’s maybe the best answer I’ve ever had. It’s like, why? Because in another language, it’s super fun to say. Oh, that’s great. How about cats or dogs?

Michelle: Dogs. French Bulldogs.

John: Okay. Very specific, very specific. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Michelle: Neither.

John: Neither. That was an easy one. How about for your computer? More of a PC or a Mac?

Michelle: Mac, Mac, Mac.

John: Mac. Oh, wow. I didn’t even get to finish.

Michelle: I didn’t even need to hear it. I already knew it was coming.

John: There you go. There you go. How about a favorite ice cream flavor?

Michelle: Mocha chocolate chip.

John: Oh, goodness. That sounds fancy.

John: Yeah, right. There you go. There you go. Three more, three more. A favorite movie of all time.

Michelle: Mary Poppins.

John: Oh, okay. That’s a great answer. Yeah, there you go. Balance sheet or income statement?

Michelle: Income statement, because the top line number on your income statement or P&L is sales or revenue. If you don’t really get great at that department, then what’s the expense department all about if you can’t fund the expenses because you don’t have any revenue?

John: There you go. Then last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Michelle: A Tesla.

John: Oh, nice.

Michelle: Yeah, it’s my dream car. I got every bell and whistle that Elon would put on it. I love it.

John: I feel like they come with all the bells and whistles already.

Michelle: Pretty much. You don’t have many choices, but it was like, I always wanted the car and I can almost go round trip back to LA from San Diego and I don’t have to stop and I never have to go to a gas station. I just get to go to all these charging stations. I mean, the car has a fireplace in it. If you’re feeling like you want to chill at night, you just turn your fireplace on, and the heat starts blaring. I was like, why is it getting so hot in the car?

John: That’s hilarious, because the fireplace is on.

Michelle: Yeah, the car drive itself 90% of the time. It’s great.

John: That’s really cool, really cool. That’s almost the exact opposite of fitness and exercise, but let’s talk about that. How’d you get into being so into exercise?

Michelle: It’s the one thing that I believe you can control in life. I had this business before, and I’m sure a lot of people listening can relate where you’re working all the time and you’re stressed out and you feel like you’re overworked and underpaid, and you name the situation going on your head, there is always one place that brought me back to normalcy. That was going to the gym or working out now at home for the last three months. It’s like I actually look forward to it.

We can’t control a pandemic, we can’t control losing a client all the time. There’s some things that are just not in our control. You can’t control — if get in a car accident, you can’t control, if your neighbors are loud, but you can control movement. I mean, it could even be meditation if you don’t feel like moving. With exercise, there’s so many physical benefits to not only your longevity, but your productivity on a daily basis. I like to be really productive and really efficient.

In order for me to show up and be my best self to my clients or to do a podcast episode on The Abundant Accountant podcast or whatever it is, I have to have the energy to do that, and you can down as much tea and caffeine and coffees as you want, but exercise for me is the thing that I can actually control. Do I always want to do it? No. But if you set a timer, I guarantee you’ll feel better after an hour because the endorphins and other things that happen internally in your body.

Even if an hour of stretching or if it’s an hour for me, well, I haven’t done aerial yoga like I used to, but aerial yoga was one of my favorites.

John: Oh, wow.

Michelle: Yeah, I mean lately during the quarantine — I have a personal trainer, because I like accountability, and we did a small group training, so there’s like four of us, so she had to change her whole business model. I was stuck in Peru with my boyfriend, all I could think about on our trip home once we finally made it and landed in Miami, and we were on a plane from Miami to LA, was I can’t wait to work out. Just to get back into routine and normalcy.

That’s really how it happened. I’ve been to a lot of accounting conferences and other places and I see what stress can do to you and I can see what too much working can do to somebody. There’s a way to combat that to not only make you feel better, but also for you to provide a better service and increase your revenue. They all go hand in hand. That’s my thing. That and drinking water. That’s another crucial thing.

John: Right. We never drink enough water, that’s for sure.

Michelle: Yeah. I had a nutrition meal food business before. I’ve talked and met so many nutritionists and dieticians, and our body’s made up of water. If you can at least just control — which again, to move and to walk around your house or walk up and down your stairs, or to do some yoga or get on the Peloton app is doing free months, there’s so many resources to have guided movement, but water, you can drink half your body weight in water, that’s also something that you can control on a daily basis. For me, I drink almost a gallon of water a day, which is a little more, but that’s what I’m used to now.

John: Wow.

Michelle: Yeah, you just feel better.

John: For sure. Especially first thing in the morning because it’s been a long time since you’ve had anything because you’ve been sleeping. Were you always into fitness from when you were younger?

Michelle: No. I started in college. I lived across the street from the Rec Center, and I discovered the elliptical machine and then I discovered the gym and some weights, and then it started probably my first job out of college was that Moss Adams in Seattle. I met my best friend there. She was the personal trainer at the 24 Hour Fitness. That was the first time I really lifted weight.

I was like, oh, my gosh. You just feel so much better, your posture’s better. When we’re slouched over our computers all day or working on balance sheets and tax returns, or whatever you’re working on, your posture goes so exercise and building muscle actually helps your posture and how you can sit and stand and your mobility, so it really started after college was when the weightlifting started.

John: Right, right. That’s really cool that it’s just sort of you kind of tiptoed into it and then it just became a passion of yours.

Michelle: Yeah, passion, but also a habit. Are there days that I don’t feel like working out? Yeah. But then I think about how I’m going to feel, how I can show up to my clients, how can I be the best version of myself, how can I have a podcast episode that’s going to be fun and exciting to listen to? All of that stems from just me setting aside 45 minutes to an hour of movement, even when you don’t feel like it because it’s something we can control.

John: Yeah, and that’s such a big deal. I mean, because so much is always changing. We hear it in all of the professions of just AI and there’s new technology, there’s new something, there’s always changing and this is one thing that isn’t. Whatever your hobby or passion is, is kind of the eye of the hurricane, if you will, and for you, it’s fitness and it’s so great because you can control that. You can control how much you do of it and how often you do it. I think it’s really important for people to have that anchor point.

Michelle: Yeah, and it can be, for me, that’s just my thing. Also, I guess you could say, I’m also learning Spanish, which is why I said that earlier. I’ve been learning for the last two years, I want to be fluent and actually do an episode with a Spanish speaking account one day. That’s my goal.

But learning a new language and having that habit of doing homework, and setting aside the time, again, it’s something we have control over. One of my clients, Anna Barbara, because I incorporate this in my accountability calls that I have with people, what’s the one thing you can do to take care of yourself today? Some of them, it was just going on a walk for an hour and listening to a non-accounting podcast like this one, or for a lot of people, I had another client, he was really into spirituality and going to church every Sunday and that hasn’t been available for people.

So really getting into some of those more spiritual type podcasts and walking at the same time, now you’re filling your brain with something you’re passionate about and you’re moving. Because when you change your state and your physical state, you feel better and you can show up better for your clients. Everything I talk about is the piece that you actually have a daily choice to make that you have full control over because there’s so many things out of our control that I try to focus on what are the things you can control?

Anna Barbara was telling me, she’s like, I feel like when I follow my plan that I have control over myself. That is a really good feeling when you do that. For me, it’s been a routine but I know for others where if you haven’t done anything, even if it’s just starting with drinking water and I always say, start small. An hour might be a little much for you but maybe 30 minutes.

John: Yeah, just some exercise for a little bit, and most people are probably like, I drink water. It’s just in coffee. That’s not the thing. It’s not the thing.

Michelle: Right. Well, the coffee dehydrates you. For every cup of coffee you have, you should drink 16 ounces of water.

John: Yeah, but when you have that control that there’s confidence there that you’re able to show up like you were saying, show up better for yourself and for your clients as well, and so I mean, this is clearly something that you talked about with your clients. Is this something that you talked about all along even back in your Moss Adams days?

Michelle: My Moss Adams days, I was trying to get out of the cubicle. That’s just being honest, John. I saw so many unhealthy habits. I did take up being a part-time spin instructor at 24 Hour Fitness during lunches when people go out, and there were four Starbucks in my building, and my boss, he’d want to go get Starbucks in the afternoon and in the morning. I was just like, everyone is just so over caffeinated that at that job, I actually started to personal train after about a year and a half on the side at 24 Hour Fitness, and I was a spin instructor and I really kind of got into the well, I might as well get paid for working out and get to kill two birds with one stone.

But when I had my last company, John, I actually had to close it. It was March 27, 2017, lost a couple million dollars, had a ton of credit card debt. I focused on what could I control, I couldn’t control the market changing. I couldn’t control all these VCs that were funding similar companies that basically were giving away free food.

There were just so many things that were out of my control. But one thing I could control is how quick I could get back up on my feet, get out of debt, and your mindset and how you feel is everything. I paid off hundreds of thousands in credit card debt in about a 14-month period. I just got on it, but I focused on, okay, what is it? It’s staying hydrated and showing up to be my best self every single day.

If you look at a lot of people’s morning routines and other routines, one of my friends who I’ve been helping, he actually just launched a book yesterday called Game Changer. He founded the game you might’ve all played called Pictionary. He’s the inventor of it.

John: Oh, yeah.

Michelle: He’s been retired for 35 years or 30 years, but he’s still so busy and does all these podcast interviews and, I just see it, but one thing he does tell me when we’re on the phone is his morning routine. He goes through sun salutations, he’ll drink coffee, he’ll have his cereal, he’ll drink water, but he’s got a physical routine and any high performer or someone who’s ultra-successful, you can’t let your body go, because the second you let yourself go, you’re about to let all your clients go. It’s just a matter of time.

John: It’s cool when you’re dealing with your clients, you bring this philosophy, if you will, to that, which is really fantastic. I guess, do you feel like some people are reluctant to share that side of themselves? or do you feel those relationships are different than maybe the ones back when you were early on in your career, where maybe you didn’t share as much?

Michelle: Yeah, I would probably say that. I mean, back when I had my food company, it was very different. The kitchen staff was very active. It’s a physical job, but my COO at the time, I tried to inspire him to do stuff, but he was that guy that drank eight, nine cups of coffee a day, never drank any water, never worked out or exercised. It was just a matter of time when your body’s just going to give up.

I can only inspire and help so much. Ultimately, you get to make the choice but what I really want people to leave with and understand is that you get to make choices. There’s some choices we don’t get to make, which for anyone that’s lived in the world during March of 2020, and right now we’re in June, July, you didn’t have a choice about all the stuff that’s going on, on a daily basis.

But you can have a choice to not watch the news. You can have a choice to not go into social media. I have that choice. I choose typically to stay away from it, because it doesn’t do you any good. I haven’t met anyone that — who was I talking to the other day? They’re like, oh, yeah, I’ve been off Instagram for a week. I feel great. I’m like, yeah, probably.

I paid someone to do my Instagram and help me. But again, you have control over that. You have control over what content you want to be taking in and listening in your ears like, listening to this podcast or listening to spiritual podcasts or listening to meditations about compassion and love and unity. You’ll be a different person when you show up for your clients. Obviously, for me, it’s all about that top line revenue for accountants and growing it and not feeling like you’re underpaid and overworked, because that’s a choice.

John: And being able to enjoy it, not working so hard. I guess I’m always curious, because of all the organizations that you’ve worked at or now consult with, how much do you feel it’s on the organization to create that culture where it’s totally cool for people to share whatever their passions are versus how much is it on the individual to maybe just create their little circle themselves and start it from the bottom up?

Michelle: I always think that if the organization’s lead with it, then make people comfortable sharing that kind of stuff, that would be good, right? You’re a comedian. If you could do you stand up within an organization because that’s what sparks you and lights you up, then great, or if you’re someone with a passion for yoga and taught yoga to all the team members during lunchtime even if they didn’t really know what they were doing, they put on an app, and the app teacher guide them, imagine what an organization would be like if that were implemented? Everyone got to actually lead with their passions.

If you’re listening and you have an organization, I would try that. My team is virtual, so I don’t have that, but it’s got to come from the top. One of my mentors with my last company, he’s name is Peter. He was a navy SEAL. He was at the top in different food companies like Jack in the Box, in leadership, and Pinkberry, and other places, and he would always lead with his personal story because your story is what shapes you and creates you and his passions, and his passion was the days of the Navy SEALs. But he loved to run. He was a runner and a marathon runner. He would put that in his slides to his team.

John: That’s stuff that you even remember now.

Michelle: Yeah. I remember now and I don’t even really see him or talk to him very often. I don’t know where he is. He went to some pizza organization.

John: That might be my passion – pizza. No, I’m just kidding. It’s ice cream. I was joking. But no, but that is so interesting to me that he shared that as part of a presentation and yet that’s the part you took away. It wasn’t everything else that followed that was probably more work related.

Michelle: You want to know what people remember me of? My half gallon bottle of water, because I always take it everywhere I go, and it’s so big.

John: That’s awesome. It’s partially for your biceps, and it’s also partially for hydration.

Michelle: Yeah. I do my bicep curls and I stay hydrated all at once.

John: That’s so cool. This has been really great, Michelle. Do you have any words of encouragement for anybody listening that maybe has a passion or an interest but feels like it has nothing to do with their job?

Michelle: Yeah, I just would say spend 30 minutes to an hour on that, and you get to make that choice every day. Do an analysis on how you feel today versus a week from now and 14 days, if you can stick to it, and focus on that non-work aspect. I do my Spanish every other day, I’ve got my exercise, that’s every day, I color with my left hand, my non-dominant hand, because it works the different part of your brain. If you paint, paint. Paint every day. Paint once a week, just stay consistent.

John: Binge watch Ozarks, whatever it is.

Michelle: I’m so glad I watched all of it. I mean, I miss it. It was so good.

John: Right? Right. That’s very cool. That’s very cool, Michelle. Well, it’s only fair that since I started out the episode with rapid fire questioning you like crazy that I turned the tables and you’re now the host of the show, which you host your own podcast, so you’re used to this. But now, you can ask me whatever you’d like.

Michelle: All right, John. Favorite sport?

John: Favorite sport? College football.

Michelle: Great. Awesome. What’s the best joke you’ve ever told that got you a standing ovation?

John: Oh, all of them. All of them. No, I’m just kidding. I mean, the quickest joke that I could probably do was I ran a half marathon, and I found out by the time I finished the winner was already back in Kenya. I was like, that is far. I am very slow. I need to — yeah.

Michelle: Clearly, if running is your passion, it’s time to get out there and start training again.

John: I mean, you said do it for an hour. You didn’t say how far I go in the hour.

Michelle: You got to pick up your speed.

John: I do. I definitely do.

Michelle: What’s your favorite vacation destination? The best vacation you ever went on?

John: Two of my favorite places I’ve been. One is Costa Rica. It is amazing. Then the other one Cape Town, South Africa. It is really, really cool and unique. So yeah, those are both to my favorites.

Michelle: Dolphins or horses?

John: Dolphins all day. I don’t care. Everyone makes fun of me. They’re wicked smart and cool as hell. I will fight everyone on it. All of you, including little girls that make fun of me. I don’t care. We’re going to rumble.

Michelle: That’s awesome.

John: There you go, Michelle. Thank you so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”? This was really great.

Michelle: Thank you for having me.

John: Absolutely. Everyone listening, if you want to see some pictures of Michelle in action or connect with her on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there, including to her podcast, The Abundant Accountant.

While you’re on the page, please click that big button and do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.