meditation Tag

Welcome to Episode 471 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett. And each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby, or a passion, or an interest outside of work. And to put in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and”, those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work.

And if you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the book. It’s on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes & Noble, Bookshop, a few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. And if you want me to read it to you, that’s right, this voice reading the book, look for What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books. And the book goes more in depth with the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture. And I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and now listening to it and writing such nice reviews on Amazon and, more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it.

And please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast, so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. And this week is no different with my guest, Bill Hershey. He’s the founder, bookkeeper, and business consultant with Life Stream Business Services out of Oregon. And now, he’s with me here today. Bill, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Bill: Right on. Thank you so much, John. Pleasure to be with you.

John: Yeah. This is gonna be super, super fun. But before we get into it, I got my rapid-fire questions, get to know Bill on a new level here. So, bring it. Right?

Bill: Bring it on. That’s right.

John: All right. Seatbelts are buckled. We’re in. Here we go. This is a fun one. How about a least favorite vegetable?

Bill: Ooh, wow. The slimy ones. Probably like— Oh, man. I just say slimy. I don’t even know how to answer that.

John: Yeah, slimy ones.

Bill: I like vegetables.

John: Yeah. Slimy ones. That’s good. I hear you on that like yeah. Because there’s some when they come out- I’m trying to even think of some, but they’re just like “Ugh.” Yeah, the texture is just off.

Bill: Overcooked vegetables would be my least favorite vegetables.

John: Ah, there you go. Okay. I like that. I like to put in the air fryer. That’s where the magic happens. Right? Gets them a little crunchy. Even I’ll do Brussel sprouts then. How about favorite color?

Bill: Ooh, my favorite color is clear.

John: Oh, okay. All right. I have never had that answer. So, that is awesome. And then here we go, least favorite color.

Bill: Ooh, wow.

John: If you say opaque, I’m gonna lose my mind.

Bill: Oh, man. That’s a great answer. I should rip that out. I’ll be like “Oh, yeah, I got that from John Garrett.”

John: You can say opaque. It’s all good. It’s all good.

Bill: Yeah. You know, I really have never thought about what my least favorite color— Oh, neon. Neon is definitely my least favorite.

John: I’m with you on that, man. Yeah, that’s obnoxious. Totally. How about puzzles? Sudoku, crossword, or jigsaw puzzles?

Bill: Ooh, it’s so long. I’m gonna say none of the above.

John: Oh, man, fair enough. How about a favorite adult beverage?

Bill: Ooh. So, there’s this brand of kombucha called June. It’s like the champagne of kombucha. I’m not hired. I’m not advertising for them, but it gets me excited to think about it.

John: That’s awesome. Okay. All right. How about a favorite actor or actress?

Bill: Ooh, I live in a cave, man. I don’t watch movies. I don’t even know what to say anymore. I’ve been like under a rock for the last 15 years.

John: So, you’re like Tom Selleck. And it’s like “Wait a minute, what?”

Bill: Yeah. Really.

John: Michael Winslow from Police Academy. You know, it’s like—

Bill: There you go. And he’s like the guy who did the sounds.

John: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Totally.

Bill: That was great. Okay. Well, let’s go with him because that guy was awesome.

John: There you go. All right. How about chocolate or vanilla?

Bill: Chocolate. Chocolate.

John: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. How about Star Wars or Star Trek? This was pre-cave, so you gotta answer that one.

Bill: You’re right. You got me on that, you know. Star Wars was like always better, but Star Trek somehow has found its way closer to my heart.

John: Yeah. There’s a deepness to it too for sure. How about your computer, more of a PC or a Mac?

Bill: Mac all the way. I’ve been with PC for too long. It’s like Mac has totally won me over over and above.

John: Wow. Okay. All right. Impressive. How about when you’re in an airplane, window seat or aisle seat?

Bill: Window seat.

John: Window. There you go.

Bill: Yeah. You know, people are walking by either like brushing up at your elbow.

John: Their backpacks hitting your head. It’s like “Yo! Do you know you have that thing on your back?” Oh, God, all the time. All the time. It’s so “aaaah.” Yeah. Yeah. All right. Books, audio version, e-Book, or real book?

Bill: You know, the audio just makes it so easy. I drive. I listen. I can actually like “read” by having the audiobooks.

John: Okay. All right. There you go.

How about a favorite number?

Bill: 9.

John: 9. Is there a reason?

Bill: Yeah. And that doesn’t mean no. You know, that means no in German, but I mean the #9. My wife speaks Germans, so I gotta be careful to clarify. I’m talking English here.

John: Your clear and opaque answers, you might as well say no. No, no, I’m teasing. It’s all good. How about early bird or night owl?

Bill: Oh, man. I am such a night owl, but I’m trying to convert into an early bird. It’s so hard.

John: Why? Those people are weird. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. It’s to each their own, man, but at least you’re one or the other and not both because, man, that would be a lot.

Bill: It is. I’m kind of split. It’s like I’m a split personality there a little bit, but I’m trying to move in the direction of early bird.

John: All right. And since you have the accounting background here, balance sheet or income statement?

Bill: Ooh, I guess income statement even though the balance sheet is where I need to be. Income statement is kind of where I’m at right now.

John: Yeah. Yeah. It was simple. There’s your number. Boom! Do you have a favorite day of the week?

Bill: I like Fridays.

John: Yeah. Okay. All right. There you go.

Bill: Even though I work on the weekend, it’s like Friday is still special.

John: Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, it’s TGIF. Right? I mean, it’s all that. And so, how about a favorite ice cream flavor?

Bill: Ooh, praline pecan.

John: Oh, okay. Nice. That’s a little fancy.

Bill: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, hits the spot.

John: Yeah. Very good. And the last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Bill: Man, I have this really weird instrument from India called a veena and I almost feel ashamed to say this. My favorite thing that I own because I barely even play it.

John: Yeah, but it’s a cool thing, man. Yeah. I mean, why not, you know?

Bill: Yeah, why not? It’s almost like it’s in a museum or something, you know.

John: Right.

Bill: It may as well be.

John: Right. That’s awesome, man. That’s so cool. Did you get it when you were in India?

Bill: You know, it’s like I’ve been so immersed in sort of India philosophy and India culture for so long.

John: Okay.

Bill: I’ve never been to India.

John: Oh, okay.

Bill: So, it’s surprising to people sometimes that that’s the case.

John: Yeah. Because, I mean, I just figured it was something you picked up while you’re there, but that’s cool that you have it. And when you go, then when people are playing it, you can just jump into the band and be like “I know that one! Here we go.”

Bill: That’s hilarious. That’s hilarious. Though I’m sure they’ll laugh when I start playing that thing.

John: No, no, no. I’m teasing, but that’s great that it’s something that you enjoy playing, and you don’t have to be some maestro at it, you know. Like it’s just something that you’re planning and that’s cool. That’s awesome, man. I love it. That actually dovetails perfectly in with your hand, I think, a little bit of just holistic health in general. And just how did you get started on that path?

Bill: Yeah. Well, that’s a long story. So, I don’t know if I’ll make it necessarily a long story short, but I’ll try not to make it a long story too long.

John: Okay. We’ll go medium. We’re good.

Bill: Yeah. Medium. We’ll find that middle way. Yeah. So, you know, I grew up eating Pop-Tarts, and Twinkies, and a can of soda pop, and bags of chips. That was like my lunch every day going to school. And you know, when I look back, okay, at least it was vegetarian.

John: Right.

Bill: Right?

John: Right.

Bill: I don’t know how I survived to tell the story. I was playing sports. You know, I was doing wrestling and football. And so, interestingly, being an athlete, I was interested in my performance. I was like “Okay, I gotta make sure I’m staying hydrated, drink lots of water and, you know, get protein or whatever.” But gradually, I realized “Oh, you know, maybe these Twinkies, maybe these Pop-Tarts aren’t actually like the best thing for me to eat.” And you know, it was probably like college years that I started to wake up to that. So, I grew up in Buffalo, New York. And nothing against Buffalo, nothing against Upstate New York or the East Coast, but it’s almost as if— It’s like I just had no exposure—

John: Sure.

Bill: …growing up there to so many things that when I went to LA when I was 21 years old, it’s like reality opened its doors to me and I had so many other options. And I think part of this is because I grew up in a very like suburban setting. And so, it’s like very sheltered. I’m sure if I was in the right niches in Buffalo, I would have got to do some cool stuff.

John: But you were in Buffalo like exotic as Canada. So, I mean, let’s be honest.

Bill: Right.

John: Like BeaverTails and like that’s not exotic. I feel like that’s just a funnel cake with some cinnamon on it, you know, but like Nutella, but yeah. So yeah, you go to LA. It’s like “Woah, this is way different than Canada.” So, yeah. So then, that’s when it started to really come together?

Bill: Yeah. Like being in LA, it was like my first experience. I went to a Whole Foods. Part of the reason why I was in LA is because— There’s details in this story. My friend from high school invited me out to join a rock band with him. He had a record deal.

John: Oh.

Okay.

Bill: They got signed to a record deal, the same record company that signed Michael Jackson.

John: Okay.

Bill: So, it was like Epic Records.

John: Yeah.

Bill: It was like “Oh my gosh, this is like a dream I never had that’s now coming true.”

John: Yeah.

Bill: And so, you know, he invited me to come out and play bass guitar. And he was vegetarian and I was a football player at that time. I’m still like, you know,—

John: Eating everything.

Bill: …down my face. Yeah. Exactly. Eating everything at all times of day, that kind of thing. But yeah, he took me to a Whole Foods. He’s vegetarian. And just kind of being around, I just got exposed to a lot of things. He took me to vegetarian restaurants. And after a few months, I was just like “You know what? It’s not such a bad idea.” You know, I have no judgment. I really think that eating food choices is such a personal choice. But you know, I had studied like Buddhism and a little bit of like ancient Hinduism in college that kind of opened my mind to alternative ways of thinking. And it’s just the concept of vegetarianism came into my awareness that that’s the thing that people do. That’s an option.

John: Right. Right.

Bill: And being around other vegetarians made realize, you know, “Okay, maybe I’ll try this.”

John: It’s not just salads, you know. Like there’s other things as well.

Bill: Exactly. Like perfect example, I was at like an Ethiopian restaurant with him in LA and like he bought this beautiful platter of like different kinds of hummuses, and babaganoush, and flat bread. And it looked amazing. And like I was going through them and I saw this like fish with like a fish head and like the head was still on the fish like on the plate. I was like “I want that.” And it came to my table. I’m looking at this fish with its head still on it and then like chewing on the bones. I’m like picking these bones out of my teeth and like I want what they got.

John: That’s awesome.

Bill: I was like “Man, why are they ordering this?” But yeah, you know, it wasn’t just like a cold turkey or cold fish stop right there.

John: I like that. Well-putted. That’s awesome.

Bill: Yeah. So, I mean, eventually, I just started eating that way and I realized whenever I went back and like had some turkey sandwich or whenever I’d be vegetarian for a couple months and then be like “You know, I think maybe I need to eat some meat” and I’d have like salmon or something, maybe even fish, even some white meat, and just every time I did, when I listened to my body, I was like “You know, I don’t think I need that anymore.” And I’m actually kind of like feeling the effects of that.

John: With Pop-Tarts still. Pop-Tarts. You would already shed those.

Bill: Well, you know, it’s a funny thing ‘cause every once in a while, I’d be like hitting the candy machine—

John: Oh, yeah.

Bill: …binging. I went through these binge cycles where I was like eating kind of healthy and then I’d be like “Man…” Like something would overcome me. I’d be like “Arggh.”

John: Just get it all.

Bill: Like downing a whole pint of ice cream, bam, or whatever, you know.

John: Totally, man. Like I threw the lid away on those when I was younger and then people were like “What are you doing?” I was like “This isn’t a single serving? Like this isn’t a sit down and just go to town on like those little Ben & Jerry kinda—” It’s like “Why do we have the lid? Like just throw it out. Like why are keeping that?”

Bill: It is so apropos we call that little, all right.

John: Exactly.

Bill: It’s like pints of ice cream, this little pint.

John: Right. But it’s more than just the eating for you. I mean there’s so much more to it now. You know, it’s groomed to be a bigger thing as well.

Bill: Yeah. I mean, it’s become a lifestyle really. And you know, I think that’s very much guided from observation, you know, observing like how does this feel in my body, how do I feel, just how is my energy and my well-being, even my mood I notice. As I became vegetarian, I became more interested in things like spirituality and meditation and, you know, ethical lifestyle. Things kind of just started naturally falling away from me. Like I wasn’t enjoying drinking anymore. I wasn’t enjoying like smoking whatever it was I was smoking at that time anymore, you know. I almost started feeling like handicapped when I was doing this.

John: Oh, okay. Like it was holding you back.

Bill: Yeah. I thought before I was like gaining something from doing that. I was like “Yeah, I feel good. I can let loose.” It’s like I can have fun this way, but something changed in such a way that it was very natural. It wasn’t forced. I didn’t have to like suppress the desire even.

John: Right. Yeah.

Bill: And so, that’s why I feel like there’s no judgment in where anybody’s at in their journey. It’s something that just unfolds if it’s supposed to unfold, you know. So, that’s how it was for me.

John: I love that, man. And so, do you feel like there’s a skillset that you bring to your work that comes from this? I mean an accidental byproduct. You know, it’s not why you do it clearly, but something that, you know what, this actually makes me better at my job.

Bill: Well, yeah, a couple things. I mean, one is like I very much pay attention to taking care of my body through food, through trying to do healthy routines.

Being on a decent sleep routine is something I struggle with, but I still kind of try to hold the reins on it a bit because, yeah, that’s gonna affect my performance and my mood. And so, I mean, that’s more on the physical side. You know, like meditation certainly is going to have an effect on my balance and my ability to just stay clear and productive. I mean that’s just in terms of like internal performance. But in terms of like working with people— Like bookkeeping, there’s a lot of technical aspects of that. But you know, on the more consulting side, helping people understand the reports, there is a lot there because money is an emotional subject.

John: Very, very. And people don’t really understand it either, which is probably why it’s more emotional.

Bill: Exactly. Totally. And being an entrepreneur can be very emotionally challenging as well. I almost call it like being an entrepreneur is like a psychospiritual journey.

John: Yeah, it’s a journey. That’s for sure.

Bill: Yeah. There’s so many challenges that we would never have to face if we were working for somebody. No judgment—

John: No, no, no.

Bill: …on those working for somebody. It is its own journey in its own way. Exactly.

John: And you know when you step into the entrepreneurial sphere/arena, this is what you’re gonna deal with, you know. You mess with the bull, you get the horns. Sometimes the bull gets you. Sometimes you get the bull or whatever, you know, type of thing and yeah. And there’s pros and cons, but I love how much of that is spilled over into your business. I mean, even calling it Livestream Business Services, I mean that’s not a common name. I mean, clearly, when people approach you or are talking to you, they’re like “Well, that’s clearly from something. That’s based in something that’s pretty deep.”

Bill: Yeah. I appreciate you noticing that. I did put a lot of thought into the name and I really wanted something that would metaphorically communicate what I feel is the essence of what I wanted to bring to my work, which is essentially, you know, whether it’s through bookkeeping or through my almost like software consultation services, which are kind of more dealing with business and money at a deeper emotional or even spiritual level. But really, the core of what I’d like to do is not only for my own self, but also for others to help us align with the principles of nature.

John: Nice. I mean, you have a niche, you know, where if this isn’t for you, awesome because now we know way before we started talking because we’re not 6 months into a relationship or 2 years into a relationship where they’re like “Woah, woah, I don’t want any of that.” You know, like “Well, that’s what I do.” So, you know, like that’s how this works. And so, it’s for people that want that and that’s cool that you’re not vanilla down the middle of the road. “I’m for everybody.” It’s like “No, you’re not.” I mean, you’re for nobody in the end, you know.

Bill: Yeah. Totally. I like being able to be sort of bring my whole self to my business in terms of not necessarily having to hide that part because it’s such a prominent part of myself, but it’s also I’m not pushing it on people. You know, I have like a graphic designer client or like, you know, another holistic client who maybe they don’t like go that deep with emotions or spirituality. Yeah, that’s fine. You know, I’m their bookkeeper, but like I kind of see where people are at. If I throw out a chrome and they’re not into that chrome, I don’t throw more chromes of that kind unless—

John: “Open your mouth!”

Bill: Yeah, I’m not that guy.

John: “He’s involved. Eat it!”

Bill: Totally.

John: I mean, clearly now, it’s something that comes up, or you talk about, or it’s front facing. But throughout your career, is it something that— you know, sharing an “and” was part of who you were or was it later in your career that you started to share those outside-of-work things?

Bill: You know, it’s interesting. It kind of gets into my journey in that I’ve always been afraid of the corporate world.

John: Oh, okay.

Bill: Like I went to a good school. It was a very corporate school. University of Rochester.

John: Oh, yeah.

Bill: I’m one of those guys who were becoming doctors or they were like being groomed for the corporate world and something in me was like “Am I really in the right place here?”

John: So, for you, it’s almost the opposite where instead of people being in the corporate world and maybe sharing their “and”, you were in your “and.” Maybe sharing that you had a corporate side.

Bill: Exactly.

John: It’s the opposite.

Bill: And you know, it’s funny. Totally. And I never really fully expressed that corporate side. Like I ended up going to a meditation retreat center and going like fully on into this really internal journey. But what I’m seeing now that I didn’t see 20 years ago or whatever it was— Yeah, 20 years ago I guess. Wow, I can’t believe it’s been that long. You know, with the changes that are happening with, you know, thought leaders like yourself where the corporate culture is becoming a lot more holistic minded and people can’t— you know, the corporate ideal where, you know, these companies are really there to nurture their employees, like I find that really encouraging.

And you know, I wouldn’t be opposed to like jumping in with a stellar job with the corporation if the conditions were right. Whereas like before, I just can’t even conceive. It’s like does that even exist? And maybe I loved, it could have, but—

John: Yeah. But it’s a needle in the haystack 20 years ago. And now, holistic as in, you know, work should not be a net extraction. It should be a net positive for the people. And so, it’s not like I go to work, and then they just suck everything out of me, and then I leave and then come back, and then they suck more out of me. You know, it’s like they should be putting in as well. Sure, some days or some weeks, “Look, it’s extraction time. You got to buckle down and nail it.” But at the end of the year, at the end of the quarter, whatever it is, it should still be a net positive for people. Yeah, I think that some people are starting to get it. I’m not sure if they know how to do that, but they want to at least. And so, you know, I do like how the tide is turning. And certainly, you know, there is opportunity there. And you know, if people are listening now and they’re like “I’ve never even thought about that”, well, now you’ve heard it. You can’t un-hear it, you know. So, there’s that too.

Bill: There you go.

John: Yeah, I love it, man. And so, do you have any words of encouragement to anyone that’s listening that has an end that they think no one’s gonna care or it has nothing to do with my job, so why talk about it?

Bill: Yeah. A couple things. Actually, before I go into that, I wanna speak to what you just brought up ‘cause this is what I call the principle of mutual prosperity. The principle of mutual prosperity is really at the heart of any holistic way of doing business whether it’s corporate, or small business, or personal transactions; having an agreement with your landlord or with your tenant; it’s where we generate prosperity together. It’s that versus an extractive exchange. So, every transaction, every exchange results into happy parties rather than one feeling like “Ugh, that felt off, you know.” You know what I mean? And so, I feel like that’s a principle of nature. We see that nature in terms of symbiosis. Right? Our business relationships can be symbiotic where we’re helping each other. You know what I mean? So, I think that’s a mindset shift that’s happening. I don’t know if you’ve heard of like the permaculture movement.

John: No, I haven’t actually.

Bill: It’s fascinating. There’s ways of setting up a garden that different plants actually complement each other and enhance each other’s like performance. Or if you look at like an ecosystem, the system is set that these plants and animals are actually complementing each other and enhancing each other’s chances of survival. And so, as a corporate culture, if you can set up your company’s systems, and crews, and roles in such a way that you’re creating that symphony, it’s incredibly powerful. If you see like a beehive, you know, they’re incredibly productive. They’re working towards a common purpose. And you know, it’s very efficient. So, I feel like that’s the—

John: No, I love it, man. I love it. that is so awesome. I mean, really a great way to wrap it up ‘cause, I mean, that’s so perfect. I love it. But I do feel like it’s only fair since I so rudely fired away at you with questions at the beginning that we flip the tables. This is the Bill Hershey podcast and you’re the host. I’m the guest. And you can ask me whatever you want, man. Here we go.

Bill: Sweet. Okay. So, these are nature boy questions if you don’t mind.

John: Okay. No, all good. Here we go.

Bill: All right. So, what’s your favorite flower, John?

John: Favorite flower, ooh, that’s gonna be a good one. I mean, gerbera daisies are always fun ‘cause they’re bright, and they’re colorful and all. That’s always a good one I guess. Yeah. I’ll go with that.

Bill: Sweet.

John: Yeah.

Bill: Daisies are great. Awesome. What’s your favorite season of the year?

John: Fall hands down. Fall. I mean, leaves are changing colors. That’s always awesome. College football’s happening. That’s always awesome. It’s not hot anymore. That’s especially awesome. Yeah, fall easily.

Bill: Right on. So, what’s your favorite tree?

John: Ooh, that’s a good one. Favorite tree, maybe I’ll go ginkgo maybe.

Bill: Ginkgo, all right.

John: The leaves are just so cool and like that’s probably why. I don’t know why.

Bill: It’s good for the brain too.

John: Oh, yeah. You’re right. It is good for the brain, which is ironic that I don’t know why. It’s like my brain isn’t working, but Ginkgo.

Bill: Maybe it’s what you need. Maybe it’s calling for it.

John: That’s exactly it. That’s exactly it. Yeah. So, there you go. It’s awesome. Those are great questions, man. Things I never thought about. So, that’s even better, but very cool. Thank you so much, Bill, for being a part of what you’re in. This was so much fun.

Bill: Right on. Thank you for having me, John. It’s been amazing.

John: Everyone listening, if you wanna see some pictures of Bill outside of work or maybe connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. Everything’s there. And while you’re on the page, please click that big button. Do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture, and don’t forget to read the book.

So, thanks again for subscribing on Apple podcast or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.

Welcome to Episode 383 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett, and each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it in another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “And”, those things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiate you when you’re at work.

If you like what the show is about, be sure to check out the book on Amazon, Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop and a few other websites. All the links are at whatsyourand.com. If you want me to read the book to you, look for it on What’s Your “And”? on Audible or wherever you get your audio books.

The book goes into more in-depth of the research behind why these outside-of-work passions are so crucial to your corporate culture, and I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s reading it and writing such great reviews on Amazon and, more importantly, changing the cultures where they work because of it.

Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week, and this week is no different with my guest, Scott Shute. He’s the Head of Mindfulness and Compassion Programs at LinkedIn and the author of The Full Body YES: Change Your Work and Your World from the Inside Out. It just came out yesterday. Now he’s with me here today. Scott, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?

Scott: All right. Thanks, John. Thanks for having me.

John: Oh, absolutely, man. The book is awesome. I’m so excited for it to be out and excited for you to be on this journey as well. Congratulations on that.

Scott: Thanks very much. I appreciate it.

John: That’s no easy feat. That’s for sure. We’re going to get into some rapid-fire questions here, get to know Scott on a new level right out of the gate here. I’ll start you out with an easy one, a pretty easy one, I think.

Scott: We’ll see. We’ll see.

John: Yeah, we’ll see. Actually, we will see. Talk or text.

Scott: Talk.

John: Talk. Yeah. All right. How about puzzles, Sudoku or crossword?

Scott: Oh, Sudoku.

John: Yeah. Nice.

Scott: I love numbers.

John: It’s more fun to say too, right?

Scott: Sou desu.

John: Right? There you go. How about a favorite color?

Scott: Oh, blue, all the time, every day.

John: Yeah, mine too, hands down.

Scott: Dark blue like indigo, that type of blue, really specific, right in between day and night blue.

John: Ooh, that is good. I like that one. How about a least favorite color?

Scott: Brown.

John: Oh, yeah.

Scott: Dirty like when you spilled paint and it all meshes together.

John: Oh, it’s just —

Scott: It’s not really a color. It’s a color, but it’s not a color.

John: It’s like a brown purple. It’s like, how is this possible?

Scott: It’s the color that, in the crayon box, you just, you don’t use that one.

John: No, no. It’s always nicely pointed.

Scott: Right.

John: I thought that was just me that had those. That’s hilarious. How about a favorite actor or an actress?

Scott: Oh, wow. Matt Damon. If the story of my life is ever told on screen, Matt Damon should be the one. So, Matt, if you’re out there, let’s chat.

John: He’s out there. He’s out there.

Scott: He’s out there.

John: Is he listening? That’s the question.

Scott: Somebody pass this on to Matt, say this is perfect opportunity.

John: Right. Give him a call. Have his people call Scott’s people. How about are you more of an early bird or a night owl?

Scott: Early.

John: Early. Okay.

Scott: Yeah, always get the worm.

John: Yeah, that’s very mindfulness of you. Yeah, it’s hard to be mindful at night, I feel.

Scott: Sometimes.

John: Yeah, yeah. How about a favorite Disney character?

Scott: Oh, Pumba.

John: Oh.

Scott: Is that Disney? I think that’s Disney.

John: Yeah.

Scott: Right? Lion King?

John: Anything animated, I count.

Scott: Yeah. Okay.

John: I think so.

Scott: I’m going with that then, Pumba.

John: Pumba. Solid answer, solid answer. I love it. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?

Scott: Both, man. I mean, I’d go Star Trek just because you have to wait longer in-between the movies.

John: And there’s a billion episodes of Star Trek, I feel like.

Scott: Yeah, that’s true. That’s true, but the movies, I’m going to go with the movies from Star Trek.

John: Oh, the movies, yeah, yeah. The Star Trek movies, yeah, yeah. No, there we go. How about your computer, more of a PC or a Mac?

Scott: PC just because that’s what we always use at work. I just got in that groove.

John: Yeah, yeah, me too. How about a favorite ice cream flavor?

Scott: Wow. Chocolate filled with chocolate covered with chocolate.

John: Yes.

Scott: Deep chocolate infused.

John: With brownies and all the chunks.

Scott: Totally.

John: How can I maximize the calories in this spoon that I’m shoving in my face?

Scott: Exactly.

John: I love it, man. That’s awesome. How about favorite season, spring, summer, fall or winter?

Scott: Wow. I think spring because there’s this time when the new buds come out. It’s like, oh, here we go. Right about when we’re recording this, the time is about to change. That’s my favorite time when you — all of a sudden it’s an hour later of light.

John: Right? Just out of nowhere. What? It’s like, just two days ago, it was still dark right now. Now I’m not falling asleep. That’s neat. That’s awesome. Very cool. How about a favorite day of the week?

Scott: Ooh, I think Saturday because you don’t have to go to the work the next day. You wake up, and you’ve got 48 hours or whatever ahead of you. It’s like, oh, this is mine. I get to do it.

John: Yeah. No, I love it. I love it. It’s also when college football happens, so that’s good.

Scott: That’s true. That’s true.

John: Everything good happens on Saturday. How about, oh, here we go, toilet paper roll, over or under?

Scott: Oh, got to be over.

John: Over. Yeah. It’s how the patent is. I think that’s how it goes.

Scott: Oh, and while we’re on it, the best thing that has happened during the quarantine is the Tushy.

John: Oh, right. That’s maybe the answer, no toilet paper. Tushy.

Scott: Yeah, Tushy, you’ve got to get a Tushy. Seriously, the absolute best thing that happened during quarantine is the Tushy.

John: It should be, if you buy Scott’s book, The Full Body YES, you get the full body Tushy.

Scott: As long as the owners of Tushy are willing to give one with every book.

John: Right. Exactly. Matt Damon, if you’re listening out there, hook us — no.

Scott: Right.

John: He’s the spokesperson now. How about, oh, mindfulness, here we go, yoga or meditation? Or are they the same? I’m not even sure.

Scott: I like them both.

John: Oh, they are different. Okay, good.

Scott: They’re different. Well, for me, yoga is about moving. I like them both, but I really like yoga to move my body and stretch because it just feels good.

John: Cool. I was worried that you were going to be like, actually, John, you can meditate while doing yoga. I was like, is that sleeping?

Scott: Well, that’s a technicality.

John: Right, right. Well, thank you, man. I appreciate you adhering to my silly rules. How about — three more — do you have a favorite number?

Scott: Seven.

John: Seven. Yeah, mine too. Is there a reason?

Scott: I’ve always liked it. It’s lucky. Also my Enneagram number is seven.

John: Oh, there you go. Okay. Yeah, mine was probably mostly sports.

Scott: Yeah, mine, too, started that way.

John: Yeah, and then you justify it. How about books, real book, Kindle or audio version?

Scott: Real. I don’t like reading electronically. It just didn’t do it for me.

John: I’m the same. The last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own.

Scott: Oh, I have a Martin D-35 guitar actually.

John: Nice.

Scott: It’s the very first thing I bought when I graduated from college. Before I bought furniture for my apartment, I bought this guitar, and I had literally a box that I would sit on and play this guitar.

John: That’s incredible. I love that so much. That’s so awesome, and you still have it.

Scott: I do.

John: That’s so great. That’s super awesome, man. Did you know how to play guitar before that, or was it —

Scott: Yes. Yes, I did. I had my brother’s hand-me-down guitar that I played for a few years, which was a nice guitar, but I wanted my own, man. So, I got a Martin.

John: Exactly. That’s so great, and then you sit on a box while you play it.

Scott: Yeah, a milk crate.

John: Right. Yeah, totally. Absolutely. That’s incredible. That’s awesome, man. I love it. I love it so much, which dovetails perfectly into your “ands”, two of them, musician and photographer. Let’s do music first since we’re on the subject. Did you grow up playing music?

Scott: I grew up in a super musical family.

John: Oh, okay.

Scott: I’m the youngest of five kids. This goes back to my great grandfather who lived to be 100. He was a bandleader, like the John Philip Sousa type of band leader, back in the 1910s. In fact, John Philip Sousa barnstormed through my grandfather’s little town of 1,000 people, and they actually got to play together. He played trombone. My grandmother, his daughter, was the pianist at church for 85 years. She was the pianist at church, maybe 80 years. My mom was the choir director at church, and all of us grew up in the church, played music, sang my first solo at age five. I played trombone in school.

In college, I wanted to join my buddy’s band. They were full. They’re like, oh, we already have a singer. What do you play? I’m like, well, I sing. They’re like, no, we already have a singer. I’m like, well, F you guys, man. I’m going to build my own band.

John: This was before ska. You can bring your trombone to the ska band.

Scott: Totally. So I taught myself to play acoustic guitar, and I’ve been writing music and singing and playing ever since college.

John: That’s very cool, man. I played the trombone in college myself.

Scott: Yeah?

John: Yeah, total goofball instrument.

Scott: Oh, total you have to be a goofball. There are no normal people. I’m air quoting normal. We’re all goofballs.

John: Exactly. That’s awesome, man. That’s so cool, another trombone player. It’s like, you never meet them. They’re all hiding.

Scott: Oh, yeah. They won’t admit it, but we’re out.

John: Right, right.

John: I still have mine in the — I can go get it. No one wants to hear that on the podcast.

Scott: No, later. There’ll be a special edition.

John: A guitar is much better. People want to hear that. They recognize the song. It’s not a bunch of whole notes that no one hears the song. That’s cool. You taught yourself how to play. Did you perform or were you…

Scott: A little bit and mostly just for myself, and I taught myself to play before YouTube. Oh, my God, it is so much easier now.

John: Right.

Scott: Back in the old days, you actually had to buy sheet music. You’d find some artist you like. For me, way back when, it was Tracy Chapman or James Taylor or Indigo Girls. You’d have to buy a whole book just to learn one song.

John: Or not even the song, the chorus of the song.

Scott: Right, and then it was probably written for piano. Now, you just go to YouTube, and there are 27 different versions, depending on your vocal range. Now it’s so much easier. Yeah, I taught myself. I mostly did not play out. I played for friends. Now, I’ll play for — every year, we have a block party, and my buddy and I, we play music. I wish I was as good when I was 20 as I am now because I totally would have done more of it. I would have gone out more.

John: That’s an interesting thing that’s come up from all the interviews, is instead of I’m a guitarist, it’s I enjoy playing the guitar.

Scott: Yeah.

John: Then it doesn’t matter if you’re good because I enjoy it. I’m not giving myself the label, and it takes a lot of the pressure off and all that. Because I feel like a lot of us, we don’t share it as much because people are going to judge or I’m not very good as the person that’s down the street. That’s like, yeah, but they’re amazing, and you’re also good.

Scott: For me, it’s just about that release. It’s funny. I’m getting asked — okay, so now, more people know me at work. I’m going to air quote, celebrity. I’m not exactly a celebrity, but more people know me at work. I got invited to do this show with this creative group at work. I’m supposed to play this original song. I’m going through my catalogue. I probably have 20 or 25 songs. What I realized — now my title is I’m Head of Mindfulness and Compassion, right? I’m going to play this song for these people. What I realized… You see where this is going?

John: I do. This is awesome. There’s nothing compassion in your songs.

Scott: No, exactly. The music that I’ve been writing has been a release for me. It’s all this angry stuff or whatever it is because I wrote it for me. I didn’t write it to play.

John: Right.

Scott: I was like, I’m going to throw these songs — oh, no. Oh, that’s not going to work. I realized that my music has been cathartic. I’m not writing, generally, I’m not writing these happy meditation songs. I’m raging, or I’m in emotional distress. This is my outlet. So I’m going to have to figure out my whole new genre of how these two things come together.

John: There would totally be an episode at the office where we have a mindfulness guy play a song, just whatever. No, that’s super cool, man. That’s great. I think it’s cool, too, that you’re writing your own music. That takes it to another level of that release and that cathartic nature of it which is pretty awesome.

Scott: Totally.

John: Well, that’s cool. That’ll be fun to see how that goes.

Scott: I’m still working on that. I may have to write a new one actually.

John: Write a new one.

Scott: I’m all self-conscious about it because —

John: Don’t be too happy. It’ll be too much.

Scott: Yeah, nobody will want that either.

John: You just write the melancholy, the down the middle, I’m not too happy, I’m also not angry. I’m right in the middle.

Scott: Or it’s got to be like, it starts with you really angry or melancholy and then ends like you find your true —

John: There you go.

Scott: That’s a hard song to write.

John: That is a hard song to write. I would just learn a new one.

Scott: Yeah.

John: I would just… That’s hilarious. Photography, as well, is a big thing. Is that something from when you were younger, or did you get into that later?

Scott: I have always loved photography. I probably got into it, I don’t know, as a teenager, as a young adult, but I really, really got into it, probably four or five years ago. My son had gone to college. We had done everything together. All of a sudden I needed a new outlet. So I bought a new camera, and I taught myself how to use Lightroom and Photoshop and went deep.

John: Okay.

Scott: Turned the dial from three to 11 on the… Nine goes to 11 and goes to —

John: Right, right.

Scott: So, have gotten really serious about that. I have a commercial website. I’m selling photography. I used to travel a lot and take my camera with me. Now I travel to use my camera. I’ll go on specific adventures just to do photography. That’s been super cool.

John: That is awesome. Do you feel like either the music or the photography gives you a skill that you’ve brought to your career, or something that accidentally transcends over?

Scott: In different ways, for sure. The music, to be able to stand in front of people on stage and play a song that you wrote, is an incredibly vulnerable thing.

John: Oh, totally.

Scott: Here’s another thing that we didn’t even talk about is I did theater. I was doing electrical engineering as my major, but I wasn’t on fire with it, to be honest with you. It was very practical, and I wanted to get a job after I was done. So, for fun, I took all these theater classes and music classes. I took 40 or 50 hours’ worth of music and theater classes.

John: That’s incredible.

Scott: What I found is, what I’ll tell people today is the most valuable class I took in all of college and all my classes was improv. It was called Creative Dynamics, but it was essentially improv because you were in front of people, and you had to be on. How this skill has translated as an executive or as a leader is, what happens is this one time, my boss calls me. He’s like, “Hey, Shute, what are you doing?” I’m like, “I’m working. What are you doing?” He’s like, “Hey, well, I was just sitting here with the CEO, and we were talking about your new plan. Maybe you should just come over and talk about it.” I’m like, you’ve got to be kidding me.

John: Right?

Scott: This thing I’ve been preparing for months, and I have the pitch for it. Instead of all that, we’re just going to go talk to the CEO about it right now.

John: Back of the napkin, just, yeah, put on your dancing shoes. Let’s see it, Scott. Let’s see it.

Scott: I had 70 seconds in the walk to the CEO’s office to figure that out.

John: Right?

Scott: It all comes back to this. When you’re standing in front of a crowd, you’ve got to take care of all your emotions and your body, and get composed. It’s all the same thing. It’s all this acting. It’s all this music performance and getting ready for it. It’s totally that, for me, has been the most important skill in life, is being able to communicate like that.

John: No, it’s totally right. You’re exercising that muscle through your music. So then when it’s go time at the office, you’re not going from zero to 60. It’s like, well, no, I’ve been doing this regularly. I can actually do this successfully, and there’s expertise that we have outside of our electrical engineering undergrad.

Scott: Totally.

John: Unfortunately, most people see your college degree and then they go, well, that’s your expertise. It’s like, no, no, so much more expertise that people have that we don’t even care to find out about.

Scott: That’s right. I was just thinking about, even on LinkedIn. I work at LinkedIn, right? On your LinkedIn profile, you can put your hobbies, and I encourage people to tell their whole story. How often does a recruiter or a hiring manager go there first and go, “Oh, dude, tell me about when you were on the crew team in college. Or tell me about what does it mean to you to do photography or to do music, and how does that translate?” How much better would every interview be if they started that way?

John: Yeah, and it’d be more fun for the interviewer, the person interviewing the person as well. It’s a much more — you’re going to be around these people more waking hours than your family. What lights them up?

Scott: Really, who cares what grade you got on Electromagnetics Theory 2?

John: Right? Because it was a D, and if it wasn’t, then you were trying too hard.

Scott: No, funny story, actually, I got to a B in that class. It was one of the proudest moments in history because it was a weed-out class. Literally, 60% of the class got D’s or worse, and I got a B. I don’t know how.

John: Wow, good for you, man. That’s top 15%, man. That’s impressive.

Scott: This will probably be the only time that I get to drop my grade that I got in emag, so, thank you, John, for this opportunity.

John: No, you’re welcome. That’s what What’s Your “And”? is all about. One of my rapid-fire questions is typically, what grade did you get on your junior year exam? I was like, he’ll bring it up in conversation. That’s what Scott does.

Scott: Exactly. His ego is so huge he’s got to drop his grade in emag.

John: Scott B. Shute. I love that. I love how that those skills translate over and that you’re aware of it. How does the mindfulness and the compassion work into work? Because I definitely want to get to that as well. You wrote a whole book on it.

Scott: Sure.

John: I think it’s really important and really key because I feel like both of our messages are different, but their puzzle piece together nicely.

Scott: Right. First of all, most of my day job for the last 25 or 30 years, oh, I don’t even want to count, lots of years, has been in customer support leadership. At LinkedIn, I led global customer operations which is essentially all of the customer-facing stuff that’s not sales. As you might imagine, big job, stressful job. Throughout my career, always have customer issues that are happening and big organizations that there’s always some mess going on. So, mindfulness has always been a big part of my life. It’s something that I’ve started practicing when I was 13. I started teaching when I was in college. It’s always been a big part of who I was as a person, but I never really, I’m air quoting, came out as a meditator until a few years ago at LinkedIn.

I realized it was such a cool place that I could bring it to work. I started by leading a meditation class at work. That became a thing. Then I raised my hand to be the executive sponsor for our mindfulness program. We didn’t have one, so we created one, still, while I was in my old job. Then through a series of events, I raised my hand and asked if I could create this role, and so I’ve been in this role —

John: I love it.

Scott: Yeah, as a full time gig for the last two and a half years. I’m Head of Mindfulness and Compassion. For me, it’s about, I call it changing work from the inside out, mainstreaming mindfulness, operationalizing compassion. So, mindfulness is just about the development of ourselves, and trying to make mindfulness or meditation, like mental exercise, just as commonplace as physical exercise. That’s part of my gig. The other part — and, oh, my God, during pandemic, who doesn’t need help with their mental well-being, right?

John: Oh, my goodness, yeah, everyone.

Scott: On the compassion side, it’s about, okay, this is how we work together. How do we sell products? How do we build products? How do we treat each other inside the company? There’s tons of work to do to codify what does it mean to be compassionate to each other so we can be more successful? Not just because it’s some nice woo-woo thing, but, no, so we can be more successful in business.

John: It’s both. Yeah, and it impacts the bottom line. Yeah, yeah. It’s not like coddling the younger generation, which I think a lot of people are like. It’s like, no, no, everybody wants this. This isn’t a younger thing at all. It’s just they’re allowed to speak up about it because there’s the internet, and they can get another job tomorrow.

Scott: That’s right. Look, if you’re a millennial that got raised by woke parents, parents who told you, you could be anything and do anything and just follow your heart; you don’t want to work for some jerk boss, doing some dumb job that doesn’t mean anything in the world. You want to work for people who care about you and care about their customers and care about the work that we do. The work is changing.

John: Yeah. No, it very much is. That’s awesome, man. That’s what your book is a lot about, which is cool. Yeah, that’s really cool. How much is it on the organization to create that space where mindfulness and compassion is part of just what we do, where sharing your — your story is so incredibly cool, where I meditate and then, hey, I could do a couple of workshops. Now you’re the head of — a job that didn’t even exist for a group that didn’t even exist five years ago. How much is it on the organization to create that space where, whether it’s compassion or mindfulness or sharing your “and”? Or how much is on the individual to raise their hand and be like, hey?

Scott: Well, I think it’s both, but if you don’t have a safe space to share, then we just retreat, right? Here’s what I found. This is how I got there. Our CEO was onstage talking about his own meditation practice using Headspace.

John: Oh, wow.

Scott: That created this umbrella of safety for me to say, okay, well, I guess it’s okay for me to then talk about my thing. I was a VP at the time. That creates an umbrella for everybody in my org and other orgs to also come out and go, well, actually, I do this too, and I’m willing to not talk about it at work. So then all of a sudden, everybody’s talking about what they do, in a way that’s open. This is how it happens.

People will come. If you build it, they will come. If you create this space where they can talk about what they’re passionate about, and they can bring their whole self to work, then you can have really cool conversations about not just meditation or compassion or whatever, but music or creativity. You start putting these creative people together. All of a sudden, they’re like, wow, I get to talk about this at work.

Just think about your own life in times when you felt super lit up about some project that you were doing because something about it sparked inside of you, versus a project where you’re like, oh, wow, well, this kind of sucks, but I’ve got to get it done because I need the pay. Which of these things are you going to get better results from the employee on? It just makes sense.

John: Even if those projects are mundane, which is what happens at work, you can talk about the music or the photography or the outside-of-work thing as part of it. Then you bring that energy to work. You’re around people that they know what you get lit up with and vice versa, and they care about you. It’s like a genuine care. Hey, I’d love to see your pictures, Scott. Or what song have you written lately? What did you bash in the latest song that you were angry about? Totally. I was listening to Rage Against the Machine, and they sound a little too soft for you. That’s cool because then it’s like, wow, they care about me, not just the technical skills me.

Scott: Exactly. Even if we just started every staff meeting, if there are six or eight or 10 of us in a staff meeting, just going around, hey, what’s something cool you did this weekend? Not everybody has to share if they don’t want to, but what this does is it takes our guards down. We’re treating each other as human beings first and building those connections first. It’s from that energy then, okay, well, now let’s go talk about this accounting spreadsheet or this sales presentation or this — I mean, then we’re alive, right? That same aliveness goes into the “mundane,” and the mundane doesn’t have to be mundane.

John: I love it, man. That’s exactly it. That’s super cool, man. Super cool. Do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that has a hobby that has nothing to do with their job, or they feel like no one’s going to care?

Scott: Talk about it. Whether you’re a meditator or a musician or a hobby or whatever, what we’re saying is about vulnerability. I think of it like an iceberg. All of us are like an iceberg. Most of us just expose that very tip. If we lower the waterline, if we lower the waterline, and we’re like, hey, I want to share this. Look, when we’re met with resistance, we’ll be like, we all just draw the waterline right back up.

John: Totally.

Scott: That’s fine.

John: And then some.

Scott: And then some. If you draw the waterline down and you share with people and you’re met with openness, then they want to do the same thing, and the waterline continues to drop. So, what I’d say is, especially if you’re a leader, is be the first mover. Have the courage to be the first mover, and who knows what you’ll find? Maybe you’ll need to draw the waterline back up. Or maybe it will just keep going, and you’ll end up creating something magical. Be the first mover.

John: Or you create a new job for yourself.

Scott: Yeah.

John: There’s that. No, I love it, man. That’s such great advice. It’s one of those that’s simple but not easy, but you’ve got to take a step.

Scott: That’s right.

John: I love that, man. This has been awesome. Before I wrap it up, I feel like it was very rude of me to pepper you with questions at the very beginning, so we will turn the tables. Welcome to the first episode of the Scott Shute podcast.

Scott: That’s right. That’s right. It is my turn.

John: Right, it’s on you.

Scott: Here we go, John. All right, John, if you could spend the rest of your life in living just one month, like Groundhog Day, you have to live this one month that you’ve already lived over and over and over for the rest of your life, what month out of your life that you’ve already lived would you choose?

John: A specific month in a year?

Scott: You may not have to remember it, but like, when I was 18, the last month —

John: Oh, in my life.

Scott: Yeah, in your life.

John: Oh, wow. Okay.

Scott: You get to relive it. You can change the outcome every month.

John: Oh, right, because it’s Groundhog Day.

Scott: It’s Groundhog Day.

John: All right. Wow, that is a good one, yeah, because there’s been a lot of cool things that happened. I don’t know. I’ll probably say October of 2016, maybe. That was the first time I was able to go on the sidelines for a Notre Dame football game, from working with them and stuff and then got to go to several games and be on the sidelines for all of them. Yeah, I could do that all the time.

Scott: You could meet lots of interesting people if you had a whole lifetime to spend.

John: Oh, yeah. Jon Bon Jovi’s son was on the team, so he would be on the sidelines at one game. He had gray hair, so he wasn’t touring, Bon Jovi.

Scott: See, by the end of that month, you could cut an album with Bon Jovi.

John: Oh, yeah, because we can just, hey, what are you doing here? I’ve been practicing my guitar while singing on a milk crate, and I’m good now. It’ll be angry Bon Jovi songs with you in on it. Matt Damon will be playing the drums.

Scott: Exactly. Okay, that was the hardest one first. Here are two easy ones. If you could have any superpower, what superpower would you have?

John: Oh, okay. One would be to sing. I’m a terrible singer. I know that’s not a superpower, but I look at it as a superpower because if you’re a good singer, you suck because I can’t. I would love to be able to sing a song while dunking a basketball.

Scott: Ooh, that’s a superpower.

John: I might be the only 6’3” guy that can’t dunk. I don’t know why, but I just… Yeah.

Scot: Those are two superpowers. All right, we’re getting greedy here, but that’s fine. That’s fine.

John: It’s your show. My bad.

Scott: That’s right. If you could have any animal as a pet, and it would be tame and do whatever you wanted it to, what animal would you choose?

John: Dolphin. Hands down, dolphin. Dolphins are the coolest animals ever in the history of ever. They’re super smart. They’re super hilarious.

Scott: What would you do with your dolphin?

John: Save the world? I don’t know, just everything.

Scott: Here’s John and his sidekick, the dolphin. So, you get to travel around with a truck that has a tank in it with your dolphin?

John: I feel like I would be the sidekick. I feel it would be almost like a ventriloquist where the dummy is the one driving the show.

Scott: That is awesome. I imagine you do. I imagined you on a motorcycle with your little goggles and the dolphin with its little goggles in a sidecar that’s filled with water, chirping. Let’s go save the world, John.

John: I just chuck fish overhead. That would be the coolest thing ever. Could you imagine? If that happened in October of 2016, this would all be heaven right now.

Scott: Look at you. That would be amazing.

John: Yeah, that’s a good one. That’s a good one. Well, no, I appreciate it, Scott. This has been so much fun having you be a part of What’s Your “And”? Congrats on the book, and I appreciate it.

Scott: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It’s been fun.

John: Everybody listening, if you want to see some pictures of Scott or connect with him on social media or get the link to Full Body YES: Change Your Work and Your World from the Inside Out, just came out yesterday, be sure and check it out. All the links at whatsyourand.com. While you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.

Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.