Chris is an Investigative Accountant & Podcaster
Chris Ekimoff returns to the podcast from episode #83 to talk about his new hobbies with running and starting his new podcast, inSecurities. He also talks about what he does around the workplace as a director to encourage an open workplace!
• Moving away from competitive swimming
• Taking up running marathons
• Starting his podcast
• Typical first-time interactions with clients and co-workers
• How Chris sets an example at the office for an open workplace
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Welcome to Episode 292 of What’s Your “And”? Follow-Up Friday Edition. This is John Garrett. Each Friday, I follow up with a guest who had been on the show a few years ago to hear what’s new with their passions outside of work and also hear how this message might have impacted them since we last talked.
I’m so excited to let everyone know that my book is being published in September, yes, this September, and will be available on Amazon, Indigo and a few other websites. Check out whatsyourand.com for all the details or sign up for my exclusive list. You’ll be the first to know when it comes out.
Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week and this Follow-Up Friday is no different with my guest, Chris Ekimoff. He’s a director with RSM and the Southeast Region Leader for Financial Investigations and Dispute Services and on the side, he’s the co-host of inSECURITIES podcast with the Practicing Law Institute, and now he’s with me here today. Chris, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?
Chris: Glad to be here, John. So great to chat with you again.
John: Of course, man. You’re a busy, busy dude. That’s why I appreciate squeezing into the schedule. You know the drill, rapid fire questions. These are ones I probably should have asked you a couple of years ago on Episode 83. My God, bless you, man. That was long ago.
Chris: Yeah, we’re dating ourselves. Everybody knows that we’re the old guys on the podcast right now.
John: Exactly. It’s one of those things. I’ve been doing this for X — that means you’re old.
Chris: That’s right.
John: That’s what that means. I am ancient. All right, here we go. First one, Harry Potter or Game of Thrones.
Chris: Game of Thrones definitely.
John: Okay, okay. How about a favorite cereal even when you were a kid?
Chris: Captain Crunch will be well-known, but we had this baseball slam bootleg cereal that everything was shaped like baseball bats and baseballs. I don’t know if that was something that you got from the corner store or — I’d have to do some research, and if that was a real cereal, but made me fall in love with baseball as a kid too.
John: Yeah. That’s incredible, man. How about brownie or ice cream? Ice cream, okay. How about a favorite Disney character?
Chris: Aladdin has always been my number one, the music, the atmosphere. I’m also a big fan of vests, so I think that’s a good — it’s the reason I lean towards Aladdin.
John: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Okay, cats or dogs.
Chris: 100% dog.
John: There you go. Yeah, me too, me too. Two more. How about a favorite adult beverage?
Chris: I usually go for a Hoppy IPA, but from a cocktail perspective, I usually lean more on an old-fashion, something bourbon-based.
John: Oh, okay.
Chris: I like to mix it up. I used to love to go to bars. Now we’re in this quarantine area where it’s just — whatever is in the fridge maybe is the best answer for you, John, in terms of adult beverage now.
John: The last one, toilet paper roll, over or under.
Chris: Over. That’s a deal-breaker.
John: That is a deal-breaker.
Chris: You got it. No, that’s great.
John: I had somebody on once say, “If it wasn’t over then this conversation is over.”
Chris: I agree with that person, 100%.
John: That’s awesome. So, yeah, Episode 83, we talked swimming back from your college days.
Chris: That’s right.
John: I love that example of when you started at a huge Big Four firm and the Olympics was just happening where everyone was breaking all the records. All of a sudden, everyone knew you were the swimming guy, so they were talking to you about that. I thought that was really cool.
Chris: Yeah. That suit technology part of the interesting window in the swimming history world is there were two or three years where times are dropping like crazy because people were wearing basically wet suits that helped them float. I was the only guy in the office who had at least a little bit of understanding of why that was happening.
When it’s being covered on Good Morning America, in the Nightly News, everyone wants to talk about it at the water cooler the next day, so I was more popular than I should have been but thankfully for a good reason, to stand out with some of my peers as well, so it was excellent.
John: No, no, l think it’s cool. So is swimming still a passion of yours or has it transitioned to something else?
Chris: Yes. Again, quarantine limiting, pools aren’t really open to go do some laps. I’ve actually moved away from competitive swimming as an adult and jumped into the running bug. I’ve done a handful of marathons in the past ten or 12 years.
John: Oh, wow.
Chris: I always try to stay current. I’ve got a couple of friends who do Masters swimming, so I’m checking in on their times to maybe let them know they’re not as fast as they used to be. A bunch of my college friends and I got together last weekend at a lake up in Kennedy and we swam the lake together, much slower than we did back in college but always laughing and looking back at those elements too. So, not spending as much time in the pool anymore but still definitely a passion of mine.
John: It’s still part of your life.
Chris: Yeah, definitely.
John: And what have you. I think that’s fantastic, and marathons, those are not easy.
Chris: That’s what I tell people, especially with the swimming discussion, is I used to spend two hours at practice, staring at the black line at the bottom of the pool. Now I get to run for an hour and see all these things and breathe whenever I want to and maybe slow down and walk instead of having to do a flip turn and turn around. It transitioned well, but definitely different medium.
John: That is funny. Yeah, I never even thought about that. Yeah, I guess you’re not really looking at anything.
Chris: I tell people, you play soccer. You play football. You don’t play swimming. It’s not a game. It’s not fun. Just back and forth, over and over again.
John: You’re exactly right. You don’t play.
Chris: You don’t play running. You run. You just swim. All that happens.
John: Yeah. I also don’t run because there’s no play involved. There’s no joy in this. That’s awesome, man. Why do you hate yourself so much? What’s going on? Just teasing, man.
Chris: It balances out the adult beverages on the other side. If I go for a good run, then that old-fashioned is a little bit sweeter at the end of the day.
John: That’s very true. That’s very true. The podcast, which is great by the way, how did you get into that?
Chris: It’s one of those weird stories. My co-host, Kurt Wolfe is an attorney at the law firm, Troutman Sanders, and I had actually met each other by tweeting at a Securities Enforcement Conference using the conference hash tag, four or five years ago.
At the networking event after the conference, I was talking to some of my colleagues. They were like, “Hey, Chris, saw you on Twitter. Ha-ha, you loser.” Kurt was on the other end of the table, and he’s like, “Hey, yeah, we were tweeting each other back and forth.” The partner that Kurt worked for and the partner that I worked for looked at each other, oh, maybe that was a valuable use of their attention and time today. It’s always about collecting business cards.
So, Kurt and I have had, for the past couple of years, this relationship where we’re discussing securities, law and regulatory enforcement issues over Twitter, sharing articles with each other and giving each other a good ribbing and speaking with the Practicing Law Institute which is a global provider of continuing legal education services, who had asked if we’d be interested in doing that as a podcast. Instead of just bantering on Twitter, why not get you two guys in front of a microphone and talk through some of the issues you’re already sharing in the social media world.
I’m amazed and, John, I know you’ll feel the same way, we had that initial conversation in the fall of 2018 and then our first episode didn’t launch until January of this year. The amount of practice and planning and effort that goes into it was a huge lift, and it’s really become not only a hobby, but a complement to some of the professional stuff that Kurt and I do as well. It’s been a heck of a lot of work but a heck of a good time too, when you get to speak with interesting folks on topics that touch all of our lives from a professional perspective.
John: It’s a lot of work to do a podcast well. It’s the same as writing a book. You could just slap some words together and hit print on Amazon, CreateSpace or whatever and there you go, you’ve got a book, put your picture on the cover, but there are typos. It’s not good. It’s not well thought out. Same with a podcast. So, kudos to you. At some point you do have to just jump. Hey, it’s go time. Here we go.
Chris: I listen to a lot of podcast out there too, and hearing some of the well-known and storied folks like yourself. Going back and listening to the first five or six episodes that I ever did and just cringing at how little we all knew of what we were doing and how it went. I’m hopeful someday that I’ll look back and say, yeah, we were at stage one, and now we’re at stage two or three, and it’s going much better.
John: Yeah, because it is hard. It’s the same with any creative outlet. You never see Steven Spielberg’s student film. You only see the masterpieces and the Picassos and the whatevers. It’s hard to just get out there and do it.
Chris: Or hacking the system too. Kurt and I are — there’s a full production team at PLI that is supporting us. We’re sourcing the content. We’re talking about these issues. We’re following the news. We’re getting the gas, but we’re just hitting record, talking for 90 minutes and then signing it over. Our guys are editing and reviewing that from a content perspective, as well as a sound quality and improvement perspective. So I’m thankful to the guys at PLI every day for taking the conversations that we have that are kind of muffled and getting them into a little bit brighter and more interesting medium there.
John: Yeah, yeah. So cool. It’s so cool. Just to hear, it’s swimming, you’re running marathons, it’s doing the podcasts, so many different dimensions to you which is awesome. When you think about it, you’re not just the forensics accounting.
Chris: Yeah, and, John, that’s something that I’ve always loved about the work that you do, is I always laugh when I first went to college and I said, “I want to get into accounting.” My parents we’re like, “What? Chris, we can’t keep you sitting still. How are you going to count beans all day?”
John: That’s right.
Chris: Think, over however many, 200-plus episodes that you’ve done, every single one of those episodes shows that it’s not just making sure the Excel spreadsheet is formatted right. We’ve all got these sides to us that make for a very interesting profession and takes away from the suspenders and the green visor and moves us to a more dynamic spot. It’s a testament to you, John, all the work that you’ve done, as well as any folks who gravitate to this type of work, both from the technical side as well as from the personality side.
John: I really appreciate that, man. That means a lot. I mean they’re out there. It’s not like I created this. All I did was give permission and let’s kick the door in. Because in my research, 92% of us has a hobby or passion outside of work that we do regularly. That’s not even close to 50 — how is the stereotype, this narrative, sits in the corner all the time and does work and goes home to do more work. That’s not who we are. It’s not even close. Yet we’re all acting that way. It was just enough is enough type of a thing.
Chris: Kicking in the doors is a good way to say it. Really changing that paradigm is great.
John: A little bit. Do you feel like people are sharing hobbies and passions more now? Maybe social media is helping with that?
Chris: When I first interact with either a staff person new to the team or we’re doing recruiting or interact with an attorney team that we’re doing work with and getting past that professional phase, first question is like, what do you do when you’re not here? How do I build a mental heuristic about John or about Steve or about Stacey, based on what they do?
It’s, I’m a runner, or I’m a piano player, or I do a pop-up restaurant. I like to cook and help support my sister’s catering business. All of those things is just, they layer into a better conversation you can have with the people you’re talking with. Yeah, listen, we’ll get to the billable hours. We’ll do the legal research. We’ll do the damages model. It sounds bad. I care less about that than hearing more about what you’re making tonight for dinner because that’s —
Chris: — that’s interesting to me. Maybe it’s because we’re taping this around lunchtime, but that’s where my focus is right now.
John: No, you’re exactly right. There are follow-up questions to that side. There are really not many follow-up questions to the what do you do for a day job? Oh, okay, got it, whatever.
Chris: I went to an American Bar Association Conference in Atlanta last year for white collar litigators. Hey, I’m Chris. I’m with RSM. I do forensics accounting and work on legal cases and testify and all that. What type of law do you practice? They say, “White collar.” I’m like, guys, we’ve moved beyond the general. Talk to me about the caseload you have. Talk to me about who you’re interacting with. Is it financial services? Is it — all those kinds of things. After two or three conversations, it was like, yeah, we should stop saying white collar. I was like, yes, let’s get to that next level of detail. Same side of that, on the personal side is let’s move past the regular assumptions and talk to me about what really matters to you.
John: Absolutely. That’s what I love about what you’re doing and that mentality. That’s fantastic. Hopefully, one day, you could just go to a conference and say to people, “What’s your ‘And’”? Then they’ll just say swimming or running or food trucks or whatever. Awesome. Because that’s where we can now have a conversation. The other ones are dead ends after dead ends after dead ends.
Is there something that you do to set an example? Now you’re at a director level, it’s the flip of that story when you started at Big Four. You’re the guy that sees people, and it’s cool that they know you as Chris and not the director. Is there something that you do that maybe people listening can put in their back pocket?
Chris: Yeah. I think now is a great time to stop being the utilization czar or the chargeable time reviewer and start to be a little bit more human, obviously for everything going on in the world. I laugh — I work closely with five or six people on the East Coast with our practice and got a message from one of my colleague, saying, “Hey, just so you know, I want to take a couple of hours on Monday afternoon because it’s the first time the hair salon I go to has been opened in three months, and the next appointment they have is in August.” I said, “Honestly, I’m a little bit upset that you would ask because I completely understand.” Just, if you get your work done on time and you’re not missing anything substantial, walking up the street to get your hair done isn’t an issue for somebody who has been locked in their apartment in New York City for three months.
It’s those kinds of extensions where, when I interact with people on my team or with people on the client service side, external RSM, it’s, how is your weekend? It’s not really just, hey, how was your weekend? This is the first phrase I’m going to say to you before I then talk about work. It’s, “Yeah, I remember you said your dog was at the vet last week. How is your dog doing?” Or you went up to visit your grandmother in New Hampshire. What’s the weather like up there? Just building out a more full picture of who you’re dealing with and doing it from a sincere level. I don’t have an agenda to understand what the weather is in New Hampshire. It’s just I get a better understanding of the person I’m talking to and being able to connect those dots.
It’s about opening up and, like I said, now more than ever, I think it’s important to understand the situations people are dealing with, outside of, if the analysis is QC’d appropriately or if the report is properly formatted. It’s more of, how are you doing? What’s going on outside of your office or outside of the home office, I guess, now for a lot of us. To know what’s really coloring people’s day and how they’re feeling and being conscious of that is a good way to check in with the people you work with, to take a pause, take a breath. We’re all trying to get through this together, specifically, but also just to be a good co-worker, colleague and human is really to look at those other points for those folks as well.
John: Yeah. I love that. It’s asking specific questions that show that you paid attention to the last conversation, and you remembered, and you care about them genuinely.
John: That’s such a great takeaway, Chris. That’s so awesome.
Chris: It’s how you build friendships. It’s not just colleagues. Maybe I never get hired by that firm again or that case goes away. I’ll always remember that Brian is the guy who loves National Bohemian Beer from Baltimore because that’s where his wife’s family is from. The next time I have one, I send him a text with a photo of it. We all laugh about it and have a good memory and a good chuckle with it.
John: Or he just really loves the letter B.
Chris: That’s right. Brian in Baltimore with Natty Boh, that’s right.
John: Right? That’s a lot. Yeah. This has been great, Chris. Before I wrap it up, sometimes people like to rapid fire question me. So I can hand the podcast over to you. You’re now the host if you want to fire away. You’re used to being in the host chair, give it back at the end but, yeah, anything you’ve got for me?
Chris: All right, I’m going to hit you with three of them.
Chris: East Coast or West Coast.
John: Oh, East Coast.
Chris: 100%. You’re a high energy type guy. I don’t see you surfing out.
John: I mean I will go surfing, but just cut to the chase. Tell me you like me or you don’t. Just I don’t need to guess. When I was doing comedy, we’ll get back to you tomorrow. Three months later, you’re still following up. It’s like, get out of here.
Chris: That’s good. All right, number two, a piece of advice you got early in your career that you think has helped develop who you are today.
John: Oh, okay. I started at PwC and they had a phrase. It was — and I made fun of it, to be honest, because it rhymed, but I remember it so I guess it worked. If it’s meant to be, it’s up to me. I thought that that was a good phrase because you can’t rely on outside forces to determine what you actually want to go get. Go get it. Go do it. It’s also, no one else can do it for you.
I wrote my book. Sure, I had several editors and people that helped me and coached me along the way, but I wrote every word. You can’t just tell someone, “Go write a book for me,” and then write. You have to go do the work. I think that applies to all professions. You have to do it. You can’t just sit there and complain. Why don’t you just turn that energy around and put it towards what you actually want to have happen as the outcome.
Chris: I’m with you, and definitely good tenet. I hadn’t rhymed it before but I’m going to take that with me. Finally, John, if you weren’t doing what you’re doing now and money and all that was not an issue, what would you be doing all day?
John: I would be on a Tesla rocket to the outer space. I don’t know. I always wanted to do that when I was a kid.
Chris: That’s awesome, kind of space game writ large for you. That’s awesome.
John: I don’t know. Maybe it was the space ice cream I got at the Air and Space Museum in DC but I just always love that stuff.
Chris: That’s awesome. I don’t know. I just thought of that.
John: It will be cool. I don’t know if I want to do all the training that’s involved.
Chris: I hear it’s not just like in an Uber. You don’t take Uber to the moon. It’s a little bit more involved with that.
John: I’m probably going to throw up, but I made it. That’s great, Chris. Well thank so much you for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”? This was fun.
Chris: Always a pleasure, sir.
John: Awesome. Everyone, if you want to see some pictures of Chris in action or get a link to his podcast or maybe connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there, and while you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.
Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.
Kevin is an Accountant & Ragnar Relay Runner
Kevin Yeanoplos returns to the podcast from episode 17 to share with us his recent experiences in his hobby of road trips visiting historical musical landmarks and his latest relay run! Kevin and John have a deep conversation on having a passion or hobby in life!
• Seeing James Taylor for the 25th time
• Kevin’s recent road trip
• Completing his 18th Ragnar Relay
• Frisson and what it means
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to do John’s anonymous survey
about Corporate Culture!
Pictures of Kevin
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Welcome to Episode 262 of What’s Your “And”? Follow-Up Friday edition. This is John Garrett. Each Friday, I’m following-up with a guest who had been on the show a few years ago to hear what’s new with their passions outside of work, and also hear how this message might’ve impacted them since we last talked.
I’m so excited to let everyone know my book’s being published very, very soon. It will be available in Amazon and a few other websites so check out whatsyourand.com for all the details or sign up for my exclusive list, you’ll be the first to know when it’s coming out.
Please don’t forget to hit subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. This Follow-up Friday is no different with my guest, Kevin Yeanoplos. He’s the Director of Valuation Services at Brueggeman and Johnson Yeanoplos in Tucson, Arizona. I visited him in his office before and now, he’s here with me today.
Kevin, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?
Kevin: John, it’s a pleasure to be with you to spend a few minutes. I’ve always enjoyed our chats.
John: I appreciate it. Ditto, man. Ditto. It’s always fun to catch up. This time, we hit record and let people hear it. That’s pretty fun. Yeah. One thing we never do on the regular calls is rapid fire questions. I’ve got seven for you right out of the gate here, get to know Kevin on another level.
If you had to choose, Harry Potter or Game of Thrones?
Kevin: Well, it would have to be Harry Potter because I think I maybe one of the ten people in the world that have never seen an episode of Game of Thrones.
John: And I’m in the club with you because that’s on HBO or something where you have to spend more money on it. So yeah, I don’t even know anything about it. I just know there’s a blood bath every other episode apparently.
How about more pens or pencils?
John: Okay, all right. I like that. How about oceans or mountains?
Kevin: That is a very tough question. Just expand on it very quickly, I always was around oceans as a young boy and felt that was peaceful to me. But since I’ve been in the mountain west for so long, actually I will tell you, a subset of the mountains basically red rocks is peace to me.
John: There you go.
Kevin: I’d have to say mountains now.
John: That’s fair enough. How about a favorite food?
Kevin: Red beans and rice.
John: Oh, there you go. How about do you prefer more hot or cold?
Kevin: Oh. Have to be hot in Arizona.
John: Yeah. Very, very hot. Two more. How about a favorite sports team? Any sport.
John: Oh, there you go.
Kevin: Since 1962.
John: Right, when they started. That’s impressive. How about toilet paper roll? Over or under?
Kevin: It’s got to be over.
John: On occasion, I get an under. Sometimes, there’s a reason. For the most part, over is definitely the most popular answer. That’s for sure.
It’s been a little while since Episode 17 when we chatted, I mean just such cool pictures you were doing from going to concerts and the photography and meeting all these musicians and then also the Ragnar Relays that you were doing. Is this still stuff that you’re into?
Kevin: Oh, yeah. If I had to — you know I’ve been thinking about hobby, my hobby is really living life, trying to be the pebble. I feel like we can change the world if we can change yourselves. That’s what my hobby is right there.
John: I love it, man. That’s great. I mean the way I look at the podcast, it’s just every episode is wiggling away at what people think of the stereotypical professional. Example after example is counter that and show you that this is the new norm. We can actually make a difference by being that example to others as you are. I mean for sure.
But yeah, have you been to some fun concerts recently?
Kevin: You know, they’re all fun. Earlier this year, saw James Taylor for I think the 25th time.
John: Oh, gosh. Yeah, wow.
Kevin: James Taylor was very important to me when I was younger, still is. His music I think is inspiring and everybody has an artist like that that impacts their lives and for me, James Taylor is it. I did some time in Mississippi last week and I think I drove 600 miles on one day.
I started out at Tupelo, Mississippi and went to Elvis’ birth place and then I drove to Clarksdale, Mississippi about two hours away which is where supposedly Robert Johnson made a deal with the devil so he could play guitar so well, and then I drove another hour to Robert Johnson’s grave at the middle of nowhere in Greenwood, Mississippi. Then from there, I went to Indianola, Mississippi which is where B.B. King was born and is buried and it was an epic day and that was better than any of the concerts I’ve been to.
John: Yeah. That’s amazing, man. I mean all of the music shrines of sorts, I mean all within a short drive.
Kevin: All in Mississippi. That’s incredible if you think about that.
John: It really is. Yeah, I didn’t realize that all of them — I mean I knew Tupelo of course with Elvis but yeah, didn’t realize all those other musicians as well. Very cool. Last year, I was able to see The Killers in Milwaukee in Summerfest, and man, what an experience. It’s crazy. The video and the confetti canons. I think I want to incorporate a confetti canon at the end of my keynotes now just after watching that, just like yeah, so it’s been fun going to concerts as well and I do not so much of the running on your part of it, but is that still something that you’re active with?
Kevin: It is. In fact, I just completed my 18th Ragnar.
Kevin: Let’s see. Where was it? Oh, the Bourbon Chase in Kentucky. We ran from Louisville, Kentucky to Lexington. The scenery was fantastic and I was with some good friends that I’ve known for quite a while. It’s always an experience to push yourself physically and emotionally and mentally and you come out the other side. I’ve learned so many good life lessons from doing those running races. I recommend it highly.
John: The Ragnar, for the people that are new to it, how far is that again?
Kevin: Somewhere around 200 miles and you have 12 runners. You each run anywhere from 12 to 20 miles and you run 24 hours. It usually takes us somewhere around 30 but you’re running all the time. You talk about life lessons, I‘ll just tell you quickly. In May, we had a Ragnar that went from Cobourg, Ontario to Niagara Falls. Ontario. Early in the race, one of the runners was alongside Lake Ontario, most of the course was along there. She happened to look off to the left and she rolled her ankle and she rolled so badly that she broke it.
Her husband was running and had to spend time with her in the hospital. Basically, you have two vans of six people. The other van had four people left. We had six and understandably, the other fan was kind of down and wanted to just give up, let’s just quit the race. We all thought about it. We said, here’s what we’ll do. We’ll give you one of our runners. We’ll all run an extra leg so instead of running three legs, we ran four and we’ll finish the race.
I now have a post-it on my computer screen that says sometimes, you got to run with ten. You do what you need to do to finish and it’s just such a great experience to do that. That’s why I said that’s my hobby, living life to the fullest because there are lessons for us every day.
John: That’s incredible, and what a story. I mean you’re running already 20 miles each and now, it’s like you’re attacking on an extra six or eight or whatever because of being a runner or two runners down, so probably even more than that, and yeah, sometimes that happens in work and in life where you just got to get it done.
Kevin: Yup. Very true.
John: It’s not because the other person isn’t good or whatever, it’s just that circumstances happen and that’s really incredible. Have you seen others in the professional world sharing hobbies and passions or are you more aware of it now or is it something where we still have some work to do?
Kevin: John, everybody has something, whatever it. To some people, they enjoy, they really do enjoy working 80 hours a week. Some people enjoy that. I don’t. I never have. I think I share with you that maybe a lot of that perspective comes from some health issues I had a number of years ago when that taught me a big lesson and gave me a lot of perspective.
The things I enjoy about working primarily are interacting with the clients, feeling like I can help. I love now to mentor and teach, that’s really what I like to do. The profession that I spend a lot of time in namely business evaluation has changed a lot and the technical side, I believe we probably get more into the weeds than ever before and there are some people that like that. I try to look at it above the fray. It’s just a different perspective.
John: No. For sure. I mean that’s something were I found in my research that I’m doing that yeah, there is maybe 8% of people where work is their thing and they’re really passionate about it but there’s about 92% of us that have something else that we’re all so passionate about.
Both are I guess okay but for so long that work all the time mentality has bullied us into thinking that if we have something else then maybe we’re not as dedicated to our job or we feel guilty or whatever and so it’s been cool sharing that message with people that no, no. It’s the opposite. It’s okay if work is your thing but it’s also 100% okay if work isn’t your thing and you’re just good at it and it gives you the money to go do the cool stuff you actually love to do.
Kevin: Well, have you ever heard of something called frisson?
John: No. I haven’t.
Kevin: It’s spelled F-R-I-S-S-O-N. It’s actually a French word and it’s French for chills. It’s not rare but not everybody experiences it and it’s something that maybe we hear a song or we read something. Whatever it is, we feel the chills because that particular thing has hit us and really, I mean it arouses something, that maybe is a bad word, but we feel it so strongly. I feel it all the time when I’m listening to music.
I personally feel it when I’m with or talking to certain people, not everybody but I feel it. I think it’s important for us, whoever we are, to try and be so aware of things that we feel that because it’s out there. It’s what are the things that inspire us, what are the things that enable us to feel? We are, as CPAs and though financial professionals, we’ve kind of gotten buried in our head. We think so much with our head, and again, there’s nothing wrong with that.
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve really, really, really tried to think more with my heart. For me, that’s where I’m comfortable.
John: That’s fantastic because I mean there’s zero emotion typically at work or maybe anger. It’s like the only emotion and there needs to be joy and happiness and caring, love to a certain agree for clients and for coworkers. Get out of our head and more into those emotions and it’s not unprofessional at all. It’s actually more professional. It’s not as black and white as what we want it to be maybe.
Kevin: Well, if we got more time, I would tell you about some of the things that we’ve studied in management class about how impactful relationships can be on success in the workplace. Maybe that’s a good topic for another podcast.
John: All right, all right. But it clearly is. I mean relationships are where it’s at. It’s basically the gist of it. You can’t get relationships by being all up in your head and memorizing all the technical stuff. There’s a lot more to it. That’s great. We’re all capable of it too. That’s the other thing is that it’s encouraging that everyone can do it. It’s really not hard.
Kevin: People are more comfortable with it than others but we absolutely all have the ability to do it.
John: For sure. Well, this has been really powerful. And yeah, we’ll leave that cliff hanger for next time when you’re on the follow-up Friday and then you’ll finish the graduate work and yeah, Dr. Yeanoplos. Who knows, man? It’ll be next level type stuff. That’ll be fun. But before we wrap this up, it’s only fair that I allow you to question me back so if you have any questions you like to ask, we can let it rip.
Kevin: I’m going to turn the tables, John and ask you, if you had a day to do anything, what would you do?
John: wow. Goodness. That’s a deep question. I would probably have some ice cream for breakfast, if we can do anything, I mean let’s be honest. Start the day with that, and goodness, that’s really tough. I mean I don’t know. I mean my happy place is definitely going to a college football game especially at Notre Dame it’s definitely my happy place, bringing my wife and share that experience with friends and family and all that.
That’s definitely middle of October where it’s not cold but it’s not hot anymore. It’s just that perfect 60s type of weather and the sun’s out and yeah, that’s a good day for me. It really is. Then of course they win. There’s that part too I guess if we’re going to do all this.
Kevin: To give you a follow-up, and I’m going to expand it out and say okay, who would you be with? If it could be anybody, would it be for instance, what you described are you sitting there with Knute Rockne. If you could be with anybody for that day to experience it with you, who would it be?
John: Because part of that is those great coaches that you described, part of that is that would be really neat, but on the flipside, I don’t want to ruin the image that I have of you know, because maybe Knute Rockne, he was a great coach because maybe he wasn’t the nicest person. I don’t know. I don’t want to ruin it.
But yeah, I think that would be really cool but I don’t know, I guess I’m just really content with my wife and friends because then I think I could enjoy it more and just be more myself, I guess so I know that’s kind of lame because it would neat to have it be some amazing type of people but then I think I would be a little more myself and be able to enjoy it more than watching the game with some people that know way too much about football.
Kevin: That actually is very insightful because I have met a number of people that would be heroes to me and you have to temper your expectations. Otherwise, you are going to be disappointed. They’re human being. They’re just like everyone else.
John: Yeah. They’re just regular people. Right, exactly. That’s a really great question to ask. Really, everyone to ask themselves. And then why aren’t we doing that? At some point in our life, go do that thing.
Kevin: Very much true.
John: Well, that’s awesome. Well, thanks, Kevin. This has been so much fun catching up with you. I really appreciate you being on What’s Your “And”?
Kevin: Sure. My pleasure.
John: Everyone listening, if you want to see some pictures of Kevin out in the world and at his concerts and going to these music shrines and even running or maybe connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com, all the links are there. While you’re on the page, please click that big button and do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.
Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use, and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.
Mark is a CPA & a Runner
Mark owns MGR Accounting Recruiters, a San Antonio focused recruiting company, and Where Accountants Go, a career-content site for accounting professionals.
Mark talks about how he found his passion for running and how his experience in working for the family business made it easy for him to share this passion in the office!
• Getting into running
• How his passion for running helps him relate to others
• His experience in the family business
• Talking about running in the office
• Learning about co-workers’ hobbies through sharing his own
• Why the influence on culture should come from the top
• Why your hobby could have a lot to do with your job
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Welcome to Episode 247 of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett. Each Wednesday, I’m interviewing professionals who, just like me, are known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. To put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their “and,” those things above and beyond their technical skills that actually differentiate them when they’re in the office.
I’m so excited to let everyone know that my book is being published in just a few months. It’ll be available on Amazon and a few other websites. So check out whatsyourand.com for all the details. I can’t say how much it means that everyone’s listening to the show change the cultures where they work because of it. The book will really help spread that message. And please don’t forget to hit subscribe so you don’t miss any of the future episodes. I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. And this week is no different with my guest, Mark Goldman. He’s the founder of MGR Accounting Recruiters in San Antonio, Texas and the host of Where Accountants Go podcast. Now, he’s with me here today. Mark, thank you so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?
Mark: Hey, John. I am so excited, man. I feel like I’m getting in the in-crowd now or something. This is cool.
John: We’re all nerds over here too. Don’t worry about it. It’s all good. Yeah. But it’s so much fun hanging out in San Antonio about a year and a half ago, I guess, with the Texas State Society and meeting you there. So I’m just excited to have you finally be a part of this. This is going to be fun.
Mark: Thank you. Yes. Thank you, man. Congrats on — you were on the list of, I don’t know, the top two most influential people in accounting or something.
John: Right. Yeah. Exactly. In top 100, I mean I don’t know where in that. Maybe I was number two. I don’t know. But no, it was a real honor to be on that list. And just to get recognized for all the work that I’m doing on this side of it is really cool. Sharing people’s stories has just been awesome. But before we get to yours, rapid-fire questions right out of the gate. So here we go. Suit and tie or jeans and a t-shirt?
Mark: Anyone knows me a suit and tie for sure.
John: Okay. How about do you have a favorite sports team?
Mark: Ooh. My team in the office is going to crack up at this. I am so ignorant about sports. So Spurs for San Antonio, but I think we play basketball.
John: Right. Okay. Just because everyone else is talking about it. It sounds good. How about Balance Sheet or Income Statement?
Mark: I’m a business owner, so Income Statement.
John: Oh, there you go. Yeah. Do you prefer more hot or cold?
Mark: I get cold easy, so hot.
John: Yeah. Well, there in Texas, it’s a slam dunk, I guess. How about Star Wars or Star Trek?
Mark: The last Star Wars movie is coming out, so Star Wars for sure.
John: Yeah. It’s really hot right now for sure. And your computer, PC or a Mac?
Mark: PC. Man, I have an Apple phone and I still can’t get used to it. PC for sure.
John: Yeah. No, I hear you on that. I hear you for sure. Then favorite ice cream flavor?
Mark: All right. Don’t make fun of me but not just vanilla but the super-rich vanillas, like vanilla 1905 H-E-B vanilla, something like with intense flavour.
John: I hear you. I’m an ice cream junkie, so I appreciate that answer so much. I know exactly what you mean, exactly what you mean. How about a favorite number?
Mark: I really don’t have one. A positive number, I guess.
John: A positive number? I like that answer. That’s good. How about pens or pencils?
Mark: Pens. It’s easier to write it.
John: There you go. How about a favorite color?
Mark: I knew you’re going to ask that. I don’t know my favorite color now but green just because I was a kid. When I was a kid, I want to pick something that other people don’t pick. And kids don’t pick green.
John: That’s very true. That is a rare answer. How about a least favorite color?
Mark: Oh, hot pink. Yeah.
John: It’s just too much. It’s just too much.
Mark: It’s too much.
John: No, no. I hear you. I hear you. How about on an airplane, window seat or aisle seat?
Mark: Aisle seat because I’m a little over six feet, six one. Yeah. I need room. Yeah.
John: No, no. I hear you. I hear you. Especially against the window. I mean the fuselage curves.
John: So you can’t even totally sit upright. It’s crazy. So no, I hear you. I hear you on that one. How about a favorite actor or actress?
Mark: Ooh, I don’t know, man. I really don’t have one. I don’t watch that much TV anymore.
John: Yeah. I just figured I’d ask. All right. How about would you say you’re more of an early bird or a night owl?
Mark: Early bird now just because I like to get stuff done.
John: Right. How about a favorite Disney character?
Mark: Mickey Mouse just because we foster kids. And all the kids like Mickey Mouse, man.
John: There you go. No, no. That’s a classic. You can’t go wrong with Mickey.
Mark: Yeah. I learned to like Mickey. Yeah.
John: That’s for sure. The last one, the favorite thing you have or the favorite thing you own?
Mark: Not very specific but whatever pair of running shoes I’m using at the time. So that’s one of my prized possession in life, whatever was the most new pair of running shoes that I have.
John: Right. I mean running shoes are not cheap. I mean they’re really fancy these days, so I completely understand that answer. And it dovetails perfectly into your passion of running. Is this something that you’ve been doing since you were young or did you get into it later in life?
Mark: No. Yeah. Actually, I was very un-athletic as you could tell from my sports answer earlier. I got into it because my wife did, I guess, about seven years ago, six years ago. She was running for charity runs and stuff like that. She get up early on Saturday morning to go practice, John. And I’m in bed. Finally, one morning, I’m like, “Mark, you need to man up and support your wife and go with her.” That’s how I got into it. So quite by accident, but I love it now.
John: That’s a really great story. And I love how that’s practice as opposed to training. You’re like, “Whatever it is. I’m just out there running.” And I’m supporting you. So is that how you started with some charity runs?
Mark: Yeah. Actually, it’s funny. My wife is Japanese. She’s under five feet tall and I’m about six one. When I first went out with her, I thought, “Oh, piece of cake.” I mean I’m taller. And it was miles. After the first mile, I could barely see her on the horizon, just trying to keep up. So I learned my lesson a little bit. But, yeah, we just started training for kids’ charities actually.
John: That’s awesome. I guess do you have a fun story or more rewarding story from one of your races?
Mark: Well, I just did my first marathon last year.
John: Wow. That’s huge. Congratulations, man.
Mark: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It’s been fun. Yeah. I’m training for my second one. I don’t know if it’s fun or not, but just finishing, there’s definitely a runner’s high that you get after finishing stuff like that. You should be tired but inside you, there’s this sense of accomplishment. It’s hard to match that.
John: That’s impressive. I’ve only done one half marathon. It should not be called half of anything. It’s really unfair that it’s called that. It’s so far. I can’t even imagine doing double that. But that’s impressive, man. I mean not a lot of people can say they’ve done that. So good for you.
Mark: Do a half marathon, just take a nap and then go do the other half.
John: Right. Or just say, “I did,” and then eat a bunch of ice cream. How about that? Yeah. So would you say that running it all gives you a skill that you bring to the office?
Mark: Well, I mean it helps you relate to people, I think. Yeah. I’ve always been, I guess, open about my life outside of work as you describe it. I think it helps you relate to people better because they know you’re real. And particularly if you’re in management, it helps you relate to them better. They open up more to about what they enjoy. And I think it’s always helpful from that standpoint.
John: Yeah, for sure. And I think that that’s really important, what you mentioned about as a manager, relating to the people. And why do you think that that’s so crucial?
Mark: People and particularly in today’s market — and of course, I’m in the employment space. But people have options. They can choose where they want to work and understand a lot these days. I think if you expect to keep your team members long term, you have to show that you care about them. Yeah. If all you care about is whatever the project is, that’s not going to work long term.
John: Right. Exactly. Because there’s so much more to them than just the technical skill side, yeah, which is really cool that you see that because they don’t teach us that in business school, I don’t think so. Where do you think you learned that from?
Mark: God, that’s a great question. I think I’ve known a long time that you need to care about your team. I worked for my father. Maybe that’s where I got it. I grew up in a family business through middle school, high school. I mean it was normal to talk about everything else because he was my dad, my boss.
Mark: “Finish and then go clean your room.”
John: Yeah. Exactly.
Mark: “And do your homework.”
John: That’s funny.
John: No. Right. No, that’s awesome though. But that’s so cool that you really didn’t know any different. Then when you did experience something different, it was like, “This isn’t as good or as rewarding.” So it’s nice to hear that you’re translating that over to your team now, which is neat. That’s pretty cool. That’s really cool actually. So the running is something you do talk about at work I’m sure?
Mark: Yeah. Actually, probably more than people would like. There’s an old joke. It’s like, “How do you know if your buddy went running on the weekend if you didn’t go with him? Don’t worry. He’ll tell you.” I’m very much that guy a little bit. But it is cool. I mean through opening up about that, I mean I’ve learned my different team members have different interest. I mean I’ve got a few people that just love gardening here in the office. Actually, it’s funny. I mean everybody in my office has a favorite sports team except me. I’ve got a singer. He used to be in a cover band, a guy that works with me. Yeah. Another one that’s really into dogs, just dog lover. And I probably wouldn’t know that if I didn’t share about my own life.
John: Oh yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah. Because it seems like a little bit of reciprocity happens there where you share a little bit of yours and then it shows that it’s okay for them to share about themselves usually.
Mark: That or they’re just trying to shut me up on talking about running. I don’t know.
John: Right. Something about sports so Mark will be quiet because he doesn’t know what words we’re using. That’s hilarious. That’s funny, man. No, but I think that’s a cool thing and especially that you’re able to talk about everyone in that way that you know about them really shows that you care as opposed to just going through the motions because not everybody can say that about everyone that they work with. I mean sometimes when I do some consulting, I’ll ask some of the leaders of teams or firms and companies. It’s just, “If you gave your person $3,000, do you know what they would do with it? And if you don’t, then find out because that tells you who they are.”
Mark: Yeah. It’s funny you’ve mentioned that. You were asking me how I benefited. And I didn’t really realize this until you’re asking me these questions. But back before I was addicted to running when I didn’t have a hobby, I can’t tell you that I really knew what my team’s hobbies were either. Yeah. I mean it probably made me a better manager. I don’t know. You’d have to ask my team.
John: Right. That’s really interesting though. It’s if when you didn’t have anything, either you assume that no one else had anything or you didn’t care or it just wasn’t a priority. But then once you did, then other people started opening up as well. And maybe you started seeing that side of others as well, maybe looking —
Mark: Yeah. I think it makes you more real. Then it makes them more comfortable sharing with you. Yeah. Dude, you’ve given me insight into my life, John.
John: Right. I mean my brain hurts right now. I don’t know about yours. But that’s some really powerful stuff. I guess how much do you feel like it’s on an organization to create that culture that I feel like you have there versus how much is it on an individual to maybe just do it amongst themselves in a little small circle?
Mark: I mean I think it has to come from the top. I think that managers and owners, they have to be comfortable having those conversations because the team is going to mirror what you do a little bit. All you talk about is work, then all they’re going to talk about is work, at least for the short time maybe that they’re with you. So I think it has to come from the top.
John: Right. Yeah. No, that’s very true because I mean I know when I started Big Four coming out of school. And it was you, like you said, mirror or you’re modeling behavior in front of you with people that you think are successful, only to find out that they’re modeling behavior of people that were in front of them and then in front of them. And it’s like, “Is anyone just being totally themselves?” So it’s cool that you see that and what you’ve created there because that’s definitely not always normal. I guess are there organizations that you work with and interact with? Have you seen places that do anything in particular to encourage this?
Mark: Yeah. That’s a great question. We see some employers that do it better than others, I mean some that are just more open about their hobbies and interest. We’re working with a new employer on positions to fill and stuff like that. Yeah. I guess if they are open about their interest with us, it’s a good sign that they have that open environment. If they’re trying to play it close to the vest and not opening up, you’re right. That’s probably a bad sign.
John: Right. Yeah. I mean when it comes to these hobbies and passions that people have outside of work, I mean that’s huge for recruiting. I mean if you can tap into that, of the people that are coming in for the office visit or for the interview and then match them up with someone that has a similar hobby or passion that already works there, now, it shows them that they have a friend at this company above and beyond a colleague. So that’s a huge way that companies can weave this in.
Mark: Exactly. People hire people that they’re comfortable with. They have to be comfortable that they can do the job, but they also have to be comfortable that they’re going to find it acceptable working with the person every day, if not like it. And I think sometimes, we can try to be too safe in interviews. All we do is talk about the professional side. I mean I guess there are maybe some personal things you shouldn’t go into an interview, but hobbies and stuff like that, I mean that’s definitely something that should come out and be discussed in an interview. So you make sure it’s even — maybe not exact matches in those areas, but at least you feel like you know the person better.
John: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean when you saw me do the keynote in, it’s just — my resume, the very bottom two lines was Professional Stand-up Comedian and Big Brothers Big Sisters of Central Indiana. Yeah. That’s what we would talk about every interview I would go on. It’s just really interesting insight. And all the other stuff on there that I thought was making me smarter and better and stand out didn’t really make me stand out at all.
Mark: Yeah. It’s so true. I remember when you said that. It’s so true. I mean because those are interesting things to talk about. I mean whether you reconcile the bank statement or not, I guess I need to know that.
John: Yeah. And it’s something that even if you didn’t, I could probably teach you in about 20 minutes. Then we’re good and there you go. But that’s really cool, what you got going there. That’s really awesome. Do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that thinks that their hobby has nothing to do with their job?
Mark: I think your hobby has a lot to do with your job in that it gives you a release. If all you ever think about is work, that makes for pretty boring life. I mean no matter how much you like your job. I know for me, when I get out to run, there’s just a lot of mind-clearing that goes on. I mean I can leave the house just for a quick three mile run. I’m stressed. I got a lot on my mind. I’m worried about stuff. By the time I’m back home, it’s like the world is good. The stress is gone. Whatever problems I was thinking through, the solution is obvious. And I think if you don’t have some kind of outlet — I mean it can be painting. It can be gardening, something else to get your mind on. Where does that stress all go? I think it can build up. So I think it’s extremely important to have some other interest for sure.
John: Yeah. It’s really fascinating, right, how more work isn’t the answer. It’s actually do something else that’s completely unrelated, that’s outside of the office, that get your brain off of things, get your mind off the things. It actually makes you more productive in the end. And especially something physical, running is a great way to mind and body type of exercise. That’s fantastic, man. Really great advice, really great advice.
Before I wrap this up though, Mark, it’s only fair that I allow you to question me. I know you host your own podcast. I’m turning the mike over to you now and letting you be the boss.
Mark: This is dangerous. I’ll go easy on you. Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi?
John: Oh, gross and gross. I mean honestly, I’m not a big soda guy. But Sprite? Actually, you know what? The real answer is fruit punch. I’m a seven year old.
Mark: Like a little Hawaiian guy on there, the —
John: Totally. Oh, my God, I’m such a sucker for that. And it’s awesome when I order it out loud in a fast food restaurant and everyone just looks. I’m like, “Nope, it’s just for me.”
Mark: “Where’s your kid?”
John: “Nope. Just me.”
Mark: Last question, where would you like to speak but you haven’t yet been invited?
John: That’s a really, really hard one because I mean after the Texas State Society, everything is a significant step down. That’s definitely a hard answer. I mean I guess AICPA Engage Conference might be neat. I’ve never been but there’s a lot of people there. So I’d be able to get my message to a lot of people at once. Actually, just the Texas State Society every month, we should just do that. We should just have everyone get together. I feel like you guys do anyway. But thanks, Mark, for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”? This is really fun.
Mark: No problem. That’s a lot of fun. Thank you.
John: Yeah. Absolutely. Everyone listening, if you want to see some pictures of Mark running or connect with him on social media, be sure to listen to Where Accountants Go Podcast. Be sure go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there. While you’re on the page, please click that big green button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture. Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread that who you are is so much more than what you do.
Dave is an Accountant & Comedian
Dave Gilbertson returns to the podcast from episode 8 to talk about his latest ventures as a stand-up comedian and speaker, including his latest Tedx presentation and opening for Louie Anderson! John and Dave discuss what compelled John to get into comedy.
• ‘Leading with Laughter’ Ted Talk
• Opening for Louie Anderson…again
• Less stage time, more kids
• The science behind comedy
• Barriers between hobby and career
• Tracking vacation time at Kronos
• Importance of experiencing failure
• What got John into comedy
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Welcome to Episode 212 on What’s Your “And”? Follow-up Friday edition. This is John Garrett. Each Friday I follow up with a guest who had been on the show a few years ago to hear what’s new with their passions outside of work and also hear how this message might have impacted them since we last talked.
I’m so excited to let everyone know my book is being published in a couple of months and will be available on Amazon and a few other websites. So check it out at whatsyourand.com. All the details are there. Or sign up for my exclusive list. You’ll be the first to know, and you’ll get a few tracks for my comedy album for free just for doing so. Please don’t forget to hit Subscribe so you don’t miss any of the future episode because I love sharing such interesting stories each and every Wednesday and now follow-up Friday. It’s no different with Dave Gilbertson. He’s the VP Strategy and Operations for Kronos out of Boston. Now, he’s with me here today.
Dave, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?
Dave: John, I will show up anywhere you ask me to.
John: Oh, you’re too kind, man. You’re too kind. We’ve known each other way too long. Back to the PwC days when you were fresh out of school, and I was a year out of school. I’m the wily veteran here.
Dave: Exactly. Yeah, you are the one I looked up to.
John: Which is scary for everyone, including me, mostly me actually. Fun to have you back. But right out of the gate, we do the rapid-ire questions now. It’s been almost four years, 2015 when you were on with Episode 8. Some different questions to throw at you here. So the first one, if you had to choose, Harry Potter or Game of Thrones?
Dave: Harry Potter.
Dave: I had never understood Game of Thrones.
John: Okay. I’ve actually never watched either of the movies or shows, whatever they’re called. Do you prefer more hot or cold?
Dave: Hot. I grew up in North Dakota.
John: Okay, you’ll take anything.
Dave: End of story.
John: End of story. Good. How about favorite ice cream toppings?
Dave: Peanut butter cups. Anything with peanut butter, honestly. Anything with peanut butter and ice cream, I am in.
John: Nice. I like it. How about cats or dogs?
Dave: Cats. I know it’s not going to be a popular opinion. I’ll apologize up front. Yeah, I’ve never been a dog person.
John: How about when you fly, I know you fly a lot, window or aisle seat?
Dave: Aisle, always. Need a quick getaway. Not totally comfortable. I usually do exit rows. I’m not totally comfortable with the responsibility with the window seat.
John: Just recently, I was on a flight and the flight attendant on the way in where they scan your ticket and they’re like, “Oh, you’re exit row. Are you okay with that?” And the guy in front of me goes, “Sure, I guess.” And I was like, “I’m not sure I’m okay with that answer.”
Dave: I was on a flight where they gave the same question. Everyone was seated and the guy said no and they moved him.
John: Oh, wow. That’s crazy.
Dave: I’ll never forget like, wait, you actually said no to that?
John: No one says no. It’s your first time on an airplane? Yeah, that’s funny. Two more. Least favorite vegetable?
Dave: Least favorite, that is a long list.
John: Man, rattle them off.
Dave: I’m a vegetable rights activist. The senseless squatter of innocent vegetables. I think rutabagas are probably at the top of the list. Again, it goes back to roots where vegetables are forbidden.
John: Right. They don’t even grow.
Dave: Exactly. Yeah, I know my wife is appalled because she is a vegetarian.
John: Well, then it’s more for her. You’re actually looking out for her.
Dave: That’s what I tell her is that I’m always just kind of saving stuff for her, and she doesn’t buy it at all. And now my oldest is eight. I got three kids. And now they’re starting to complain that if dad doesn’t eat it, I’m not going to eat it.
John: That’s a tough one.
John: Right, right. That’s hilarious. And the last one, last one. This one is an important one. Toilet paper, roll over or under?
Dave: By law, it has to be over.
John: Right, by law. There you go. Exactly. Exactly. That’s awesome. So yeah, so last time you’re on, I know we’ve talked about your dallying and stand up, if you will, and opening for Louie Anderson and cool stuff like that. What’s new with that? Or it sounds like it’s gone to another level here.
Dave: It has, yeah. I feel really grateful for Kronos. I feel like I’ve been able to explore kind of both sides of myself. I have three kids — two but one was a baby when I first came to Kronos. We now have three kids. I feel like I’ve been able to have a real and a life outside of work and it’s pretty strongly encouraged. I think part of that has been both my family but also continuing to explore comedy.
Last summer, I was invited to give a TEDx Talk at an event back in North Dakota, actually. The TED Talk was called Leading with Laughter: Seven Leadership Lessons from Stand-Up Comedians. It was an idea I’ve been thinking about for quite a while to tie together stand-up comedy and the leadership that you see comedians display on stage to be able to move an audience coming from all different backgrounds, all different kinds of stresses in their own life, and for an hour or 75 minutes move them anywhere the comedian wants to take them. It’s a really me amazing display of leadership because they’re doing it with nothing more than words and a microphone. So I was kind of able to explore that with this TED Talk. It’s out there on YouTube and a lot of great feedback from it. So that’s been a lot of fun.
I also have been able to open for Louie a few more times. I opened for him at a really historic theater in downtown Boston, the Wilbur Theater, and then I opened for him again last summer at another kind of old-time theater in Western Massachusetts, but that’s been really fun as well. As the kids have accumulated, my time on stage has gone down. It’s definitely harder to get time to do it. I so enjoyed giving the TED Talk because I could kind of still explore that side of it without having to go to a bar for an open mic night after the kids go to sleep.
John: The TEDx Talk is fantastic. We’ll have a link at whatsyourand.com for everybody that just wants to go there. What a great parallel that not a lot of people are talking about there because most people wouldn’t think of all the stuff that goes behind the scenes of a good joke or a good stand-up set. There’s some science to it all. With the room, the lighting, the temperature of the room, all this stuff, it’s amazing how fragile comedy really is.
Dave: Yeah. So that was one of the lessons from the talk was control the audience, not the venue. As a leader, you have full control over the experience that your customers have or the experience that your employees have, but there are a million things outside of your control. So the parallel is, as a stand-up comedian, you have no control over the venue, you have no control over the size of the crowd, but you’ve got 100% control over how entertained they are once they get there.
As a manager and a leader inside an organization, there’s a lot of truth to that because it’s easy to get distracted by things that are truly outside of your control. We can all create a great experience for our customers. We can all create an inspired experience for our employees.
John: Yeah, totally, which is exactly what the message is with this is just finding out what genuinely people are passionate about. If it’s not work, then that’s totally okay. Just because you’re good at it doesn’t mean you love it, and that’s okay. I guess the more people that I talk to, it’s been interesting how they hesitate to call themselves a runner or a comedian or whatever their thing is. Did you ever hesitate on that of like, well, I’m a comedian and an accountant or operations or whatever? Did you hesitate on that label?
Dave: I did. I’ve thought a bit about it. It’s mostly because I’m not that good.
John: I didn’t mean right like I’m agreeing with you. I’m just saying that makes sense.
Dave: I know exactly what you’re saying because so many are people doing what you look at as a hobby that have put their life’s work into this, and there’s so much respect you have. You and I are exactly the same. We’ve spent countless hours talking about how much respect we have for some of the big name comedians out there and the folks that really break through, the folks that take the risk early in their career to not have a safety net beneath them. That’s not me.
I’ve had a great career business wise. I’ve got a great family. I’m not taking a risk to go do stand-up comedy full time. In that world, it is a pretty critical distinction like, is your paycheck coming from telling jokes, or are you doing that for fun? I don’t know that that distinction necessarily needs to be out there because although I consider myself kind of a work in progress in terms of being a comedian, there’s also a credibility that anybody who’s tried it gives you just for stepping on that stage, the fact that you’re willing to put yourself out there in that way. You and I both know, the first couple times you do it, it’s not going to go well.
John: The first couple of years you do it, and everyone is a work in progress. I mean, everyone, even Louis. You’re always getting better and honing.
Dave: Yeah, I know. He’s 40 years into it, and he’s still got a lot of new material. I’ve questioned myself, why hesitate to call yourself that? There really isn’t a good reason. I think the barriers we put in place between hobby and career are pretty artificial at the end of the day.
John: Yeah, it’s just which one you say first. It’s like comedian comes second because that’s not how you’re making a living. That’s not whatever. But that’s the What’s Your “And”? concept. You’re and a comedian. Well, that’s much more interesting conversation than VP of operation. Riveting. Tell me more.
Dave: I could talk cancellations all day long.
John: Right, right. That’s a totally different episode of the podcast, Dave. Just Kronos do something specific, that makes you feel like you’re able to explore both sides of yourself, or is it more of a tone at the top sort of a thing?
Dave: It’s mostly a tone at the top. So our business is HR software, payroll, workforce management software. So our business really goes to the heart of enabling our customers to have a great culture in a really engaged workforce. There’s this sense here, and I kind of talked about this on the earlier episode that you better be genuine about living that as an organization and culture if you’re going to sell that as kind of our lifeblood.
So I found that to be very true. Kronos is about a billion and a half dollar company, 6,000 people worldwide, so it’s a big company. I think we’ve done a really nice job of having culture travel. So a couple things we do specifically to encourage it. One is, for a company that sells software that tracks company’s vacation, we actually have no vacation policy. There’s a bit of irony there. It’s worked really well for us because the message sent to all the employees — and this is one I fundamentally agree with and I would do it at any other company I went to as well — the message sent is we’re hiring you to do a job. We have certain results that we expect you to achieve. The amount of time it takes you to achieve that really is up to you. If you need to take four weeks, a year, or two weeks a year, that’s up to you and your manager. You got to work that out. We want you to take as much time as you think you need to recharge. But if you need to take a little bit more time than that, don’t worry about how much vacation you’ve accrued or not accrued. You know the job that you needs to be done. That’s how you keep your job.
John: Is there a minimum amount that everyone needs to take?
Dave: There’s not, but it’s actually tracked. I don’t necessarily agree with HR on this. Where they feel it’s really important to track it, not to see if people are taking too much but actually exactly to make sure that people are taking enough because there is the worry that if it’s not tracked, it’s not formal, then they’re just not going to take enough vacation. I’ve always viewed that as part of the job of manager and leader is make sure your people are coming to work recharged. They’ve taken the amount of time that they need to recharge. We do track it, but it’s not the reason that people expect. It’s all to make sure that people are taking enough vacation.
John: Right. That’s fantastic. One thing that would be really neat is when the people go and take their time off or it’s a week or two weeks, what did you do with that time? Maybe a short presentation that you give to your department or your group to let people know like, oh, wow, that’s what you would spend your free time doing. That’s cool.
Dave: Yeah, that’s a great idea. We do a little bit of that informally on our internal chatter page. Our PR team actually reaches out and says, “Send me the most fun example of what you did with your My Time.” We call it My Time. They’ll put it all together, and then they’ll send out a summary of like, these are some of the amazing things that our 6,000 Kronites have done with the time away from work. So it’s a little bit more formal, and it’s not as personalized as my specific team but it is a good idea. I’d love to evolve there.
John: No, but that’s cool because then it’s letting people see there’s another side to everyone. There’s a human side to everyone. That’s really fantastic. Those are two excellent examples that people listening can easily take away to their company. Do you have any words of encouragement to others listening that think that their hobby or passion has absolutely nothing to do with their job?
Dave: Something I’ve gotten to feel a lot more strongly about, my biggest piece of advice is to fail. Go out there and fall on your face because really it’s a strange thing. I still haven’t gotten to the bottom of why this is, but I think it’s universal with all of us that as we get to a certain age and I think a certain level of success in your career, you start to get narrower and narrower and narrower in what you spend your time on. When I was going up and doing open mic nights, honestly it was not going well. It was hard, and it was painful. The audience response was not what the audience response was when I was alone in my living room.
John: Silence is better than like a room-full-of-people silence. That’s loud.
Dave: The recordings of all those open mics were crystal clear. There really is a lot of value in failing because as a kid, if you go out and you try baseball for the first time, it’s going to be bad. And then you try it for the second time, and it’s a little bit less bad and a little bit less bad and eventually become pretty good. That’s how you learn. But once you get to a certain age and you’ve achieved a certain level of success, you stop putting yourself out there in that way. That’s where I think it’s critical for you not to get completely hemmed in and honestly personally defined by what you do in your career. You got to put yourself out there and fail, much more often we typically do. And it’s hard. Again, with three kids, my youngest is one. My wife and I are in the thick of it like. We are just every day with the full physical sport of just parenting. It’s really hard to put yourself out there and find that time, but I think it’s critical. For me, comedy has been that thing — that I have gotten comfortable up on stage and I’ve gotten better at reading an audience. I don’t mind being in front of a lot of people, but that doesn’t mean that it goes well every time.
John: Especially with having a family, three kids and all that and on top of work. It doesn’t have to be every day or every week. Once a quarter, once every six months, just whatever it is, be intentional about setting time aside to do whatever your and is. It’s only fair that I turn the tables and allow you to maybe rapid-fire question me if you have have two or three that you’d like to fire away on. I’m super nervous because you know way too much about me.
Dave: Well, I’ll give you a sample right out the gate. The biggest thing you fail at recently?
John: Well, it would probably be writing this book. I feel like I’m failing at it just because I’ve been talking about writing it and actually writing it for a year and a half, talking about it for even longer than that, and it feels like it shouldn’t take that long but it really, really does. It’s been grueling. It’s really hard. Everyone listening, if you ever pick up a book and you’re like, whatever, that person worked really, really hard writing it, whoever wrote it, and maybe not the person whose name is on the cover. Writing a book is definitely hard. That’s for sure.
Dave: And then what do you say to a five-year-old girl, hypothetically named Lily, asked what they can be anything they want to be when they grow up?
John: For sure, you definitely can. You can be whatever you want. But I think more importantly, it’s not like the title of what you want to be, it’s what difference do you want to make in the world or what impact do you want to have? Because you can have that impact in many, many different ways. It doesn’t have to be through your work. It can be through your passion or your other things. So I think that’s probably the bigger question.
Dave: I think that’s good advice. That’s exactly where I went when she asked me that question and her response was, “Does that mean I can be a daddy when I grow up?”
John: Oh, well, yeah. Yes, it is, 2019. I mean, you know.
Dave: Last question for you. The Improv, Los Angeles, late 1999, you’re not particularly funny at that time.
John: Very true.
Dave: So what was it about that night when there was, I think, four of us that went to the comedy club, all going to the comedy club for the first time that night, what was it about that night that sparked your and for the first time?
John: I think it was just seeing live comedy up close. The Improv in Hollywood is a small club. There were probably 12 comedians, and then the Whose Line group, that Whose Line is in anyway taped and then would come down and do a live uncensored set, just seeing the really good, really funny, but then also seeing some of the people that not so much. I was like, well, I could be as not funny as that person and like, this is Hollywood.
Dave: One of the top of the top.
John: Yeah. So you’re like, well, what do I have to lose? I lived in St. Louis at the time, and let’s give it a go. Who cares? So of course, I didn’t realize that you could move to any city and say you’re a comedian. Anyone can do that right now. Move to LA and say you’re a comedian. You can. It was just something about that why not? I needed a little bit of a creative outlet. I needed something that was maybe a little bit of a challenge. I don’t know why, to be honest. I think it chose me, honestly. It’s kind of how it happened. I’m forever grateful.
Dave: Do you remember the comedian you talked to at the bar?
John: Yeah, Vince Morris. We since hung out and worked together even because we talked and I said, “How do you get into comedy?” He’s like, “Well, you just go up and do it at an open mic and bring a recorder to record yourself, listen to it, and tweak it, and go up and do it again.” It was so funny because he’s like, “So what’s your job now?” And I was like, “Oh, I’m a CPA with Pricewaterhouse Cooper.” He’s like, “Well, you got to do something,” like I’m really slumming at delivering pizzas or something. Really nice guy. Very, very funny. It’s been a wild journey. That’s for sure.
Dave: I’ll never forget that we’re walking out and you saw him sitting alone at the bar. I remember we all just kind of kept walking out, mostly looking to see what kind of car Drew Carey drove. Actually, we’re doing something with your time. And then the whole way back in the car, the four of us in that old beater car, you’re just talking about your conversation with Vince Morris. It always stuck with me. I think it was an impactful night for both of us.
John: Yeah, that’s for sure. Well, thanks, Dave. This has been really, really fun. It’s so great catching up with you again. Thanks for being a part of What’s Your “And”?
Dave: Absolutely. Happy to do it. Thanks, John.
John: Everyone listening, if you’d like to see some pictures of Dave outside of work or maybe connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there, including to his TEDx, Leading with Laughter. While you’re on the page, please click that big button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.
So thanks again for subscribing in iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends, so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.
Rumbi is a Forensic CPA & Edutainment Advocate
Rumbi Bweinofa-Petrozzello, previously featured on episode 14, returns to update us on what she’s doing outside of work including being a part of the African Film Festival, and promoting diversity and inclusion in the CPA profession, despite having to put her running on hold due to injury.
• Breaking her leg
• Celebrating 25 years of the African Film Festival
• Establishing new relationships with students every semester
• Working with Toastmasters
• Passion hours
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Welcome to Episode 210 of What’s Your “And”? Follow-up Friday edition. This is John Garrett. Each Friday I’m following up with guests who had been on the show a few years ago to hear what’s new with their passions outside of work and also hear how my message might have impacted them since we last talked.
I’m so excited to let everyone know that my book is going to be published in just a little bit and will be available on Amazon and a few other websites. So check out whatsyourand.com for all the details, or sign up for my exclusive list. You’ll be the first to know. You’ll even get a few tracks from my comedy album for free just for doing so. And please don’t forget to hit Subscribe to the show, so you don’t miss any of the future episodes because every Wednesday, I’m interviewing new guests and then now with the follow-up Friday. It’s going to be no different with the stories this week from Rumbi Bwerinofa-Petrozzello. She’s a principal at Rock forensics in New York City and the Editor of Figuring Financial Forensics. Now, she’s with me here today.
Rumbi, thanks so much for taking time to be with me on What’s Your “And”?
Rumbi: Hi, John. Thank you for having me back. I’m very excited to be here.
John: I know. In Episode 14, we hung out in New York City and had lunch, I remember, and it was so much fun. Now you’re back. We mixed it up this time. We have the rapid-fire questions up front. So everyone’s about to get to know Rumbi on a new level here. So here we go. If you had to choose, Harry Potter or Game of Thrones?
Rumbi: Ooh, Game of Thrones.
John: Okay. All right.
Rumbi: Except the ending.
John: Except the ending, right, right, yeah. Do you prefer more hot or cold?
Rumbi: Definitely hot.
John: Definitely, all right. Do you have a favorite sports team?
Rumbi: Well, right now it’s the Brooklyn Nets.
John: Oh, yeah. That’s a hot team.
Rumbi: It is. I’ve been a fan since before they became hotter. So that’s even better.
John: Very cool. How about diamonds or pearls?
Rumbi: Pearls because those are kinder to people.
John: Okay, all right. How about aisle or window seat on an airplane or the train?
Rumbi: Window. I say this, I say window, but I don’t want anyone sitting next to me.
John: Okay, so window seat, but you have the whole row to yourself.
John: There you go. Okay, two more. How about a least favorite vegetable?
Rumbi: I guess a melon is a fruit, but that’s like very low on my ranking. And it’s green sometimes.
John: Right. I’ll take it. And the last one, this is kind of important one. Toilet paper, roll over or under?
Rumbi: Okay, so I used to be a fervent under person. My husband is an over person, and I used to actually change the role. I decided to let that go. In my heart, I’m an under person, but in reality, I’ll take what’s there.
John: Yeah, it’s better than no toilet paper. That’s for sure. So it’s awesome. That’s so funny.
So I remember on Episode 14, we talked about several things. I mean, you’re running, photography was great, and then African Film Festival as well that you were really active with there in New York, and then a little bit of the karaoke from your big Berlin debut. That picture was so cool. But yeah, what’s up with any of that? How are things going?
Rumbi: You mentioned the running. I have to get that out of the way first because a couple of years ago, I fell taking out the trash and I broke my leg. That has made it impossible to run for a bit. So I’ve been going through the physical therapy after surgery and wearing a brace, navigating the subways with a leg that doesn’t work properly. But I think I’m getting to the point where I can start building my distance. So I do have hopes and dreams of running at least close to what I used to. So that’s the running.
The African Film Festival is still coming along. It was very exciting because last year was the 25th anniversary of the New York African Film Festival. What was very exciting for us and a revelation at the festival was Mayor de Blasio came with his wife, Chirlane McCray. It turns out that apparently on their first date, he took her to the first African Film Festival that ever happened.
Rumbi: It was pretty cool.
John: That’s amazing.
Rumbi: I mean, all in all, the film festival just always continues to be better, and the stories are still exciting and interesting. I think maybe with all the different areas where film can be seen, the creativity and how many different types of films are coming out and the different ways that people are telling their stories which is what all of this is about and that’s what gets me excited.
John: Very cool. And the karaoke is always fun. You haven’t signed a new record deal or anything yet, have you?
Rumbi: I might actually give the money back.
John: That’s very cool. That’s so encouraging to hear that things are still going. I mean, I know the injury with the running, that’s big. But the fact that you’re still going back to it just says how much of a passion it really is for you.
Rumbi: If people ask me if I love running, I think about it and most of the time, while I’m doing it, it feels terrible. But when I’m not doing it, I feel even worse.
John: Interesting. Since we had you on the show several years ago, was it 2016, I believe? Have you seen more people sharing hammies or taking notice to when it does come up?
Rumbi: One of the things that I have gotten into since the last time we spoke is being a part of diversity and inclusion in the CPA profession because hardly there are several groups that are underrepresented in the profession for various reasons, and so we sort of work on trying to improve the diversity in people coming into the profession, but beyond that and maybe even more importantly is the retention and advancement of people. So people feel like they’re included, so they feel like they belong. So we get all the innovation and exciting things that happen when you have a wide variety of ideas and input.
One of the things that came out of that was some members asked for Toastmasters, which is public speaking, because they feel that, which I agree with, is communication is key to probably the future of the profession and success in the profession, in general, because machines are doing a lot of the things over these road tests as trusted advisors and trusted professionals. You need to be able to communicate with everyone and we have Toastmasters.
One of the things that happens in Toastmasters is, especially at the beginning, people have an icebreaker speech where they talk about themselves. And during these speeches, we’ve just found out the most exciting things, like we have a member who is an avid rock climber, climbs the sides of sheer rocks.
Rumbi: I think one of his more recent stories, like he’s so calm when he’s talking about climbing the rocks, but on a recent trip, I think he went out to the Grand Canyon, and they were sitting around a campfire and a bear just walked past them.
John: Wow. Suddenly busy season taxes is nothing compared to that stuff.
Rumbi: He was a ballet dancer before he went into finance. He was a ballet dancer and traveled the world.
John: That’s so cool. You’re just sitting around all these people that need to be on the show. This is so fantastic. And then you. This is like the coolest room ever, and they’re all accountants.
Rumbi: If it wasn’t for you sort of shining the lights on these things, people would think that we were all like really boring, stodgy people.
John: Yeah, it’s so true. The people that believe that the most sometimes are ourselves and the people around us where it’s like, ah, well, I’m not supposed to be like that. One thing that I have come across, though, is some people are hesitant to give themselves maybe a label, a runner or as a singer or as a rock climber or a dancer or whatever, because it is just a hobby, I guess, is how people phrase it.
Rumbi: I think for me, usually when I have an argument with people is when they call what I’m doing jogging because jogging is relaxing and fun, I’m running, I’m breaking a sweat, like my body hurts at the end of it. Sometimes I get into an ice bath, like this is running. Okay, I may not be making money but —
John: Yeah, that’s awesome. You’re actually the other way, where if somebody downplays your thing, you’re like, “No, no, do not try and water this down. I am out here doing this for real.” That’s great. I love that. I absolutely love that because why not? What’s the difference? So do you have any words of encouragement to people listening that maybe think that their hobby or their passion has nothing to do with their job?
Rumbi: I just want to tell them that they’re wrong because all of these things that we do outside of, I guess, official work are part of the things that make us better at what we do when we are at work. This thing that I just remembered is just this past Tuesday, a woman was at Toastmasters, and she was speaking and she mentioned that she just started learning how to play tennis because it was a childhood dream of hers. It’s really exciting because I think the more we’re willing to look at new things and explore new things, enjoy our lives and sort of learn new things that aren’t part of our official CPE, I think that makes us better at thinking, better at communicating, better at interacting, better at connecting with people which ultimately makes us better at what we do.
John: Yeah, I love that so much. You’re so right. Wouldn’t it be fantastic if there are CPE hours that you have to do for the year, if there were like passion hours that everyone had to have so many hours of doing a hobby or a passion because, as you said, it makes you better at your job?
Rumbi: You make it continuing passion education.
John: Totally. Pick something up, let’s do this. That’d be the only ultimate dream of mine. That’s what it’s all about. That’s really cool and really encouraging to hear that you’re seeing this all around. So before we wrap this up, though, it’s only fair that I turn the tables and let you rapid-fire question me since I came at you right out of the gate.
Rumbi: Yes, absolutely. You’ll probably get a sense of the things that are important to me through my questions. My first question is coffee, hot or cold?
John: You know, I missed the coffee train. So tea, I guess, is a breakfast type of beverage, but yeah, I never got into coffee. I’m just up. I’m ready to go. Orange juice, maybe a tea once in a while. But yeah, I somehow missed all of coffee.
Rumbi: Okay, my next question is beach, yay or nay?
John: Oh, beach for sure, yeah. Three thumbs up if I had three thumbs.
Rumbi: So is that something that you miss now that you’re no longer — I mean, because when you’re in New York City, you’d never think that you’re near a beach anyway.
John: Right, some of the beaches you don’t really want to go to. But further out Long Island and stuff, yeah, definitely some nice beaches. But, luckily, there’s airplanes. So I’ve been able to go to Cancun and Costa Rica and Hawaii. There’s still beaches to be had. That’s for sure.
Rumbi: Okay. Well, fantastic. And then my last thing, because I’m depressed because I wake up in the morning and it’s a little darker, are you a summer or winter person?
John: That’s a great question. I guess winter just because summer can get really hot and gross. You can’t take off more clothes. Eventually, there’s nothing. Where in winter, at least you can like bundle up. So I guess more winter plus now living in Colorado with the mountains, go snowboarding and stuff like that, so I’ll say winter.
Rumbi: Okay. I’m always just like, I think years ago, I was watching Eddie Izzard, and he was talking about snowboarding. He said there are two positions in snowboarding, upright and dead.
John: Yeah, pretty much. It’s pretty scary sometimes. Every time you go around to turn, you’re like, “Am I going make it? Okay, I did. Hoo!” And then as you’re weaving back and forth down the mountain, there’s a brief moment of no control. It’s scary and cool at the same time. I guess, as I do it more, you have more control. But where I’m at now in my snowboarding stage, I am no Shaun White, that’s for sure. But I’m at least not on my butt all the time, so there’s that.
Rumba: There you go.
John: I’m somewhere in between. So coffee, beaches, and summer, I’m guessing, that’s what you’re all about. This was so fun, Rumbi. Thanks so much for being with me on What’s Your “And”?
Rumbi: Thank you, John. It’s always great. I’m looking forward to another at least 200 episodes.
John: If you want to see some pictures of Rumbi outside of work or maybe connect with her on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. All the links are there. While you’re on the page, please click that big green button, do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.
Thanks again for subscribing on iTunes or whatever app you use and for sharing this with your friends, so they get the message that we’re all trying to spread, that who you are is so much more than what you do.
Aaron is an accountant and a runner
Aaron Jaqua is a CPA and Senior Tax Manager for Eide Bailly.
Aaron joins us as being the first guest of “What’s Your And..?” and talks about his passion for running and how it has given him the mental strength to power through some of the worse tax seasons! He also talks about how Eide Bailly regularly encourages its team to mentally get away from work for a bit and tells us a touching story of how the firm was accommodating when dealing with a personal family matter.
• From hating to loving running
• Running in the Oklahoma heat
• How running has helped give him the mental strength to get through tax season
• Connecting with other runners at work
• Daily lunches at the firm
• How Eide Bailly helped Aaron through a tough and personal matter
• “Show up and go first”
• John’s most surprising discovery through his research for “What’s Your And?”
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Welcome to Episode 201 or the first episode with a guest of What’s Your “And”? This is John Garrett. Each Wednesday, I interview a professional who, just like me, is known for a hobby or a passion or an interest outside of work. It can be anything at all. It doesn’t have to be world class. So no pressure on everyone listening. Everyone’s got a hobby or a passion or an interest that lights them up outside of work. To put it another way, it’s encouraging people to find their and, the things above and beyond your technical skills, the things that actually differentiates you from everyone else in your office.
But first, I’ve got a quick favor to ask. If you like the show and are listening on iTunes or your favorite Android app, don’t forget to hit Subscribe, so you don’t miss any future episodes because I love sharing such interesting stories each and every week. This week is no different with my guest, Aaron Jaqua. He’s a Senior Tax Manager at the Norman, Oklahoma office of Eide Bailly. Now, he’s with me here today on What’s Your “And”?
Aaron, I’m so excited to have you on the show.
Aaron: Thanks, John. Super good to be here, man.
John: Yeah, I’m excited and so happy to have you be a part of this. As you know, you’ve been listening and we start out with the rapid fire questions. So I hope you have a seatbelt ready.
Aaron: Yep. Ready, man. Fire away.
John: All right, easy one. Favorite color.
Aaron: Easy. Green.
John: Green. Okay. How about a least favorite color?
John: All right. Cats or dogs?
John: Nice. All right. How about do you have a favorite Disney character?
Aaron: All right, we’ll go with a throwback of Aladdin.
John: Aladdin. Okay, all right.
Aaron: Why? Just because we watched it a hundred times.
John: Right, with the kids?
Aaron: As a kid.
John: As a kid. Oh, nice. Okay. When it comes to puzzles, Sudoku or crossword?
John: Neither. Preferred tax returns, that’s equally puzzling to me.
Aaron: Agreed, just by the pool.
John: Right. There you go. Favorite actor or actress?
Aaron: We’ll go with Will Ferrell.
John: Oh, yeah, solid answer. How about when you’re flying, window or aisle seat?
John: You control everything. You determine whether or not people can get up?
Aaron: That’s right. They’re locked in.
John: Now that you have kids, that makes sense, actually.
Aaron: Exactly. I am the gatekeeper.
John: How about a favorite band or musician?
Aaron: Ooh, yeah, I’d say it’s summertime right now, so I kind of throwback to Jack Johnson.
John: Oh, there you go. Do you prefer more hot or cold?
Aaron: I am more of a hot fan.
John: And how about your computer, PC or a Mac?
Aaron: Both. PC for work, Mac for home.
John: Impressive. How about a favorite ice cream flavor?
Aaron: Mint chocolate chip.
John: Oh, there you go. Classic. How about when it comes to trilogies, Star Wars or Star Trek?
Aaron: Lord of the Rings.
John: Lord of the Rings. Okay. All right, mixing it up. Here we go, tax returns, a full 1040 or the EZ?
Aaron: Oh, man, the full 1040. I don’t even know how to read an EZ.
John: Oh, really? Those are the only ones I know how to fill out. How about a least favorite vegetable?
Aaron: Dang! I would have said Brussels sprouts, although, recently, my wife started cooking them in a way that they are the bomb.
John: And what is that way?
Aaron: Baking them. You put a little bit of soy sauce and salt and pepper. There’s a little bit of other stuff. They’re like off the chain. But least favorite vegetable? This is a no-brainer. I don’t even know what I’m talking about. Cucumber. I can’t stand it.
John: How about pickles? Are you one of those?
Aaron: I love pickles because they have flavor. Cucumbers or the honeydew and the peanuts of the world. They’re the fillers. They throw them in on salads when they need to fill in a little space. It’s the last thing on the plate that’s eaten.
John: The filler. There you go. Eat some radish, like, uh. How about a favorite number?
John: Okay. Do you have a reason?
John: No, all right. No, it’s a popular answer. That’s why I was just curious. We got two more. This is an important one. Toilet paper roll, over or under?
Aaron: Oh, man, this is a hot debate in the office. I go with whatever I put it on first.
John: Okay, so whatever it is, it is.
Aaron: No preference.
John: Yeah. And if someone else changes it, whatever. It doesn’t matter. All right, last one, the favorite thing you own or the favorite thing you have?
Aaron: I’m going to say a library card.
John: Really? Okay.
Aaron: It sounds super nerdy but all growing up in life, I never really went to the library. And then within the last several years, I had my own library card, and I started realizing like holy smokes, I can save so much money on books. I mean, you can get anything — fiction, nonfiction — doesn’t matter. So that’s been a game changer. Plus, you don’t feel all the guilt when you buy something, and then you feel like you got to read it. So if I don’t like it within the first 35, 40 pages, it’s toast.
John: Yeah, and then it’s not stuck on your shelf. You put it back on theirs. That’s fantastic, man. That’s really fantastic. So I know in the intro, you mentioned running. Is this something that you’ve been doing all your life like Forrest Gump style, or did you get into it later on?
Aaron: I actually hated it as a kid because it was always the punishment in every sport. So all the sports you played for fun, when you were messing up, then you had to go run. So when I heard about running, I thought, why would you do something that is only the worst thing? And so this was probably though 20 years ago, I just had this horrible day. I just thought, all right, I don’t know why, but I’m going to go run. And man, it was amazing. So it’s probably only for like 15 minutes or something, but I got done, my head was clear. Flash forward just a bit and my wife now, we were “just friends” at the time, so really, man, I was kind of hanging out, hoping that it would go to more. She was a runner, so we both started training for this half marathon together. We were leading this mission team, so we kind of called it training. That is what really got me hooked into it.
John: Wow. I did a half marathon once, and I don’t think they should be called a half of anything. That’s ridiculous. That’s like eating half a cow, like that’s a lot.
Aaron: Totally right.
John: It’s like two hours of running.
Aaron: It is.
John: I usually do a joke, like I have found out, because at that race, by the time I finished, the winner was already back in Kenya. Good for you, man. That’s awesome that your now wife suckered you into it.
Aaron: I know. It’s always those kind of things that you don’t really expect, and then they turn into something that becomes a total part of you which is pretty well.
John: That’s impressive, man. So like the half marathon, is that your peak, or I’m sure you’ve done crazier things than that since then?
Aaron: I remember training for that, and the first time I ran five miles, I thought, this is crazy. And then eight and then 10. And then we ran a half marathon, I thought, okay, I’ve already run this far. Why not try for a full? So I did the Chicago full which is a pretty flat race. They have tons of people, so it’s got a lot of hype and energy. So I did that, and then I just kept on going. I thought, well, maybe I should try an ultra which is anything over a full marathon. So I did a 50K which is literally just a few more miles than a marathon. So it’s not 30 something. So I did that and it’s like trail based. So that’s probably the longest I’ve run.
John: It took you about two weeks or what?
Aaron: No doubt. Here’s the trick. With ultramarathons on trails, there’s like this unspoken agreement. At some point, you just start walking the hills. So the vibe is way more laid back. And it’s something that as you get older, you actually get better at. There’s this 50-year-old dude out there that was just smoking us. It’s just kind of a different way of doing it, but I really enjoyed getting out on the trails and stuff too. That was probably the longest I’ve done. But, man, the one that was the most random was on my 30th birthday, I ran 30 miles. I kind of get weird about stuff like that, feeling like I have to do something — I don’t know if it was like a pre-midlife crisis or something.
John: Just by yourself, or was it part of an organized thing?
Aaron: By myself. Well, I had a good buddy of mine. He started me off the first seven miles, and then I would just do these loops. I had an ice chest on my front porch, and then I would come back and just pound food and drink Gatorade and water and stuff, and then I’d head out for another ten or twelve miles.
John: They’re all sitting there eating cake, and you’re like —
Aaron: Man, that’s exactly. It’s just hilarious. That’s kind of the vibe sometimes is you just start stuffing anything in and will do. But my birthday is in June, so I had to start at like 4:30 because it gets so smoking hot in Oklahoma. So by mile, like 25 or something. Man, I was dying. It was so hot. I had a buddy from work jump in with me, and so he was supposed to join me. He ended up waiting for a long time because I was very late in getting there to my original overachieving estimate. I think at one point, he literally was walking next to me while I was running and I said, “Dude, you at least got to pretend like you’re running.”
John: A least slow jogging. Come on, man.
Aaron: You kind of go across the crosswalk, and you kind of pretend to jog so that the cars think you’re not being a total bum.
John: Right. Your upper body is running, but your lower body is clearly walking.
Aaron: Yeah, exactly. You kind of get that little shuffle. That’s kind of what I was doing.
John: That’s hilarious.
Aaron: But finished it. So needless to say, that trend did not continue forever. We’ll see. When I hit 40, maybe that’s going to happen again.
John: Yeah, or go backwards, just four miles.
Aaron: That’s right. Yeah, Benjamin Button. I could just go back. That’s not a bad idea. I like that.
John: You’re welcome. I just saved all of your friends as well. No, that’s cool, man. That’s really cool. This is certainly a passion and something that drives you. Is your wife still out there running with you, or did she create a monster?
Aaron: I know, right? No, we both love to do that stuff. We like to do a lot of the same stuff together, running being one of them, ultimate frisbee, hiking, whatever. So we always wind up doing something like that. So yeah, she still runs. She did a half marathon last year. We switched the tables around. She was the one running, and I was the one taking all three humans around in the stroller trying to cheer mom on. She’s normally like the champion. So there’s the person who runs the marathon and you get kind of all the glory credit. But then there’s the person who navigates the streets of Chicago before the days of Uber and before the days of Google Maps. When you had MapQuest and you had to get in taxis and you show up at a certain —
John: Right, who knows what?
Aaron: Exactly. Yes. I remember at one point, I turned the corner and she just jumps out of the crowd, throws her coat off and runs with me the rest of the —
John: Wow, that’s cool.
Aaron: Yes. She’s kind of like a pro at the navigating the race.
John: And also, to pick someone out from the crowd, everyone looks equally miserable. How do you find the one that’s yours?
Aaron: Exactly. I’ve historically just been the curly-headed, miserable-looking guy.
John: Okay, yeah, that’s cool, man. Do you feel like all this running gives you a skill set or anything that you’re able to bring to the office that makes you a little bit different than the other tax accountants there?
Aaron: So whenever I’m out running, it’s always a place where it’s simple. So all you really technically need are shoes. So there’s just so much stuff. Then at work, there’s so much, whether its technology and just all the technical tax changes and everything you just can be so intense. So getting out running is just a place to clear the head, meditate, pray, and really even it’s a way for me to kind of discover a city. So whenever I’m on work travel and I get there right off the plane, first thing I do is, if schedule allows, is just go for a run. It’s kind of the perfect way to see a city, to experience that.
But I’d say at work, yeah, I mean, there’s a classic mantra when you’re running is just one more step in front of the other and so if you can just keep doing that. So I would for sure say just that mental endurance. You’re in end of March tax season, the grind is upon you, everything is horrible, but you have to push through. There is no giving up. There’s no quitting. There’s no like, let’s just do it next year. No, this has to get done. So I would say that that’s personally helped me with probably the actual work load level.
John: Yeah, I wouldn’t doubt that for a second because it’s something that you’ve been exercising this mental toughness in all of your running. So then, it’s just like training for a marathon. You can’t go from zero, like I can’t just go out and run a marathon right now unless we all want to laugh really hard at me in the emergency room. You have to train for it. You have to get up to speed. You with three kids, you can’t just drop in to three kids. It’s like, holy crap! You got to work your way up. The mental toughness that you’ve developed over time from all of these runs and even these ultramarathons is something that you don’t even have to turn on another gear. It’s already there. It’s just like, oh, boom! That’s impressive. That’s really cool because at no point in your business education, I’m sure, that they tell you to go run like a crazy man, and that’ll make you better at your job.
Aaron: I know. It is interesting. I would say too, I just find an absolute joy and freedom while I’m doing it. I don’t know how to describe it. The science behind is the endorphins and you get that runner’s high and all those things, but I would say too, it just helps expand that mindset of life is more than just this office. It’s more than just the things we know each day, but by getting out, you can really help go up higher, get a bigger vision of what you’re really doing and why you’re really doing it. So that’s maybe getting a little bit too deep, but that’s where this thing ends up tracking too.
John: That’s exactly what it is. It’s not too deep at all. You nailed it. We can get so consumed with our jobs because that’s where the charge codes are. That’s how people are supposedly rewarded. That’s how all these things. It slowly consumes us, and we don’t even know it. You have something that allows you to escape from that to get a different perspective which is really great. You’re still good at your job clearly. You’re a senior manager. You don’t do that on accident. It just gives you a different perspective that probably makes you better at what you’re doing because you’re able to be a little more refreshed and see it from a different angle. So that’s cool.
Aaron: Yeah, man.
John: Is this something you talk about at work? Do people know you’re this avid runner?
Aaron: I would say so, especially right when I started my career here. That was probably around eight years ago. Our firm is always involved in a program called Corporate Challenge. It’s basically like a bunch of businesses get together and they all compete, and everyone kind of relives their glory days. It’s basically a bunch of grown men and women out there pulling hamstrings where you are literally running on a track and doing like a 40-yard dash. In your head, you’re so much faster than when you really are out there. Everyone in the stands are just so underwhelmed, but in your head, you’re like, I am feeling —
Aaron: But signed up for that, and I think that’s when it kind of became apparent to some because they have like a mile race and a 10K and different stuff like that. And then the day that I ran 30 miles, I had showed up at like 11:00 a.m. because it took forever. I think that kind of helped that.
It’s interesting, I would say, probably people that have started here within the last like a year or so, they would probably know that I’m a runner or that I’m at least active because I started doing CrossFit as well. So I think it scaled back so much just from a time perspective with having three little kids. Now, it’s literally my running, a big piece of it is chasing them while they literally run around the office. So they come up here. We have a perfect square loop of hallways. In a kid’s mind, when they see stairs, they’re like, “I have to go up them.” It doesn’t matter where you go, how many. “I’m going up.” When they see a hallway, they’re like, “I have to run down that.” So when they connect, it’s like a hamster. It starts and then they don’t know really when to stop until someone offers like chocolate or snacks or something like that, and then they veer off into another round. So there are definitely Fridays during tax season where they’re up here in the afternoons running around being crazy, and it’s pretty fun.
John: That’s really cool, man. That’s awesome. It’s one of these things. Obviously, life happens and family stuff and things like that, but you’re still able to tap into the running on occasion. What I found is that sometimes people let it just go dormant, and then they’re like, “I’ll pick it up,” and then it goes extinct. And then before you know it, 20 years from now, you’re like, “What did I used to love to do? I forget.” Like you said, running is so simple. All you need is shoes and go. So you’re still doing it on occasion or when you travel, getting to know a city, so that’s cool. It’s one of those things, you don’t have to do it every day twice a day to make it a passion. It’s still a thing that lights you up. So just do it on occasion, and that’s great. Do you ever sucker any coworkers or clients into running with you, or do you just bump into them out there on the race? I said, sucker jokingly because —
Aaron: I did sucker my buddy that I worked with here into it for that 30 on my birthday. But there are several within our office that run full marathons. We’re always kind of hashing out different running plans and stuff that they’re doing. There’s also another handful that do CrossFit. So it’s kind of like anytime the open is coming around, or if there’s any other events going on, then we’re always talking shop about that too. So it’s been pretty fun to see where it blends over. You just get to see more of the human side of all of us which is really the piece that people are mainly interested in anyway.
John: How does that come up in conversation? Because I know sometimes I talk to people and they’re like, “Well, I don’t know how to,” you know, is it a designated time or a thing that you do consciously or it just comes up accidentally?
Aaron: So in our office, we lunch almost every day together.
John: Ah, there you go.
Aaron: It’ll kind of vary, but there’s a crew of people who do. And then during tax season, they’re bringing in food all the time where the whole office is eating. Everyone has to have a mental break. We can come in there and start talking about work again. Eventually, you kind of run out of pleasantries and you start finding out things about everyone. You just can’t do anymore. Honestly, I work with people who also just can’t handle that either, but I definitely can, like talk about weather only all the time. So it eventually hits that point where you’re like, okay, so you collect clue games or love outer space, or you mine Bitcoin and travel. You coach high school football. You body build. You CrossFit. So there’s a full gambit you kind of start to discover about people. So it’s pretty fun.
John: Whether it’s out of the office or you’re away from the work area, that’s where connections can happen easier, for some reason. It can happen anywhere, but for whatever reason, people let their guard down a little more, or they’re a little more willing to open up. When I worked at PwC back in the day, I had a rule and even a rule, no matter where I worked really. We go to lunch. We’re going out of the office, number one. Number two, anyone who talks about work, I’m going to interrupt you within two seconds because we’re not talking about work. If you come to lunch with me, we’re talking about normal stuff. Don’t even get going because I got to do these eight plus hours a day, I’m not doing it an extra hour where I get to pick what we talk about. No, it’s not happening. So that’s cool that you guys do it kind of accidentally, but that’s such an easy thing for people to do if you’re sitting here listening now, like I don’t know how to start. It’s like, well, take a couple of people out to lunch.
How much do you feel like it’s on a firm or an organization to create this culture, if you will, build the sandbox versus how much is it on some individuals like maybe what you guys did where it’s like, hey, we’re just going to lunch? How much do you think it’s on the individual versus the organization?
Aaron: I think it’s both. That’s probably like a super safe accountant answer. So we’re all watching the partners, or I should just say, the people that are the next few levels up from you, and you’re watching their behavior. So how do they interact? How do they talk? How do they speak? What do they do? Do they go on vacation? Do they take time off? A lot of their actions and their words are going to end up driving the behavior that they want to see, if it’s language and mindset. So it’s like the way that they speak and the way they think will kind of trickle down. But then I think about for us individually, we’re not going to go to some training and listen to some deal and read a book and all of a sudden, it’s there. It eventually has to be Tuesday and what is it like. You just have to take that honest assessment of, if you want it, you have to go make it. I think it’s really hard to just expect a company to foster all that when really just all it is is just a bunch of humans in a room. That’s something that’s really hard to foster outside of people actually wanting to do it.
John: Excellent observations. Even when I started, I was modeling behavior of people in front of me until at some point, I realized they’re modeling behavior of people in front of them. We go back like 120 years, and there’s some nerd that we’re all modeling behavior after. I’m like, is anyone being themselves? Does anyone believe all this crap, like all of it, all of it? At some point, do you just stop and be like, whoa, this is not me. Eighty percent of it is me, but I got to bring this other 20%, or I’m coming to work with one arm tied behind my back.
Aaron: No, man, that’s exactly right. It’s funny because you go to these career fairs, and everyone comes around and asks all these questions. I always tell them, all right, hey, look, the thing you need to ask all these firms, why do you specifically like working there? And then give me a reason, like a story of what happened. Everyone is going to say the people. But then if you can just say, well, why? Why do you say that? Because, like for me, what’s interesting is it actually wasn’t some of the fun things that did it. It was like some of the hardest things I’ve gone through.
So four years ago, my dad passed away from cancer. He had about an eight-month stretch where from diagnosis to passing away. So it was well known, and I kind of chose to just communicate it to everybody. Those are moments where people are feeling maybe like they don’t want to be vulnerable, but I knew that I needed support. So during tax season, when it’s insanely busy, I would take two hours every Wednesday and go have lunch with my dad. So it was just an expectation that I’m not going to hit the charge goals that everyone expected, and not only was it allowed but it was encouraged. I even got direct feedback which was, if we find out that you’re here working when you should be there, then we’re going to have problems. They flipped it on the head, right? So it wasn’t where are you? What are you doing? So boss’s wife is dropping food off at my parents’ house, and people are picking up work for me and taking over in that regard.
So sometimes it’s actually the hard things that end up really bringing up people together, and you kind of start to experience some of that, like vulnerability and connection. So I still rather learn the lesson via a fun way. It was just an interesting moment to see, that’s when really the rubber meets the road of the people you’re with.
John: Man, that’s huge and so powerful. Just the firm and the people taking a genuine interest in you and your family, it’s not just the tax side of Aaron, it’s the life side of Aaron, which is arguably so much bigger than the tax side of you percentage wise.
Aaron: I know, it really is. It’s kind of wild, though, how you can let — what do they always say? The tiny rudder steers the ship. So sometimes you can let the tax work itself, drive your whole demeanor when really it’s kind of a blip on the radar as far as — because that’s an expectation. People expect you to be good at compliance work, but it’s really who you are is the piece that they’re trusting, not necessarily that you nailed that schedule in.
John: Exactly. You can’t even say it with a straight face. You’re right, man. You’re right. When we get out of school, there are still people that are in the office now that believe this, that being perfect is the only way. It’s like, no, that’s the only way to set yourself up for failure because then if you do make a mistake, you’ve already presented yourself as perfection, and you’ll never admit to it, and then it becomes this giant problem that is a huge issue as opposed to just you know what, it’s also a tax return. We do an amendment. We’re all good. Cool. This isn’t life and death situation. You can do an amendment. Try the best you can, but every single one of us, every single one of us has made a mistake of some variety, and we’re still here. So it’s okay. It’s okay. Don’t make a habit out of it, but don’t kill yourself over it either. It’s so crazy.
This has been awesome, like really awesome. Do you have any words of encouragement to anyone listening that maybe thinks that their hobby or passion has nothing to do with their profession, if you will?
Aaron: I would say, show up and go first. So every day you come to work, we kind of have this option to just do the bare minimum, whether that’s work, but also even just bringing our whole self there, but showing up with our whole self and then not being afraid to go first. I would say, not to get too intense, but some of these stem back to with my dad. It’s helped me see how this whole thing ends. He never was talking about like — and you read this in books too, but he was never regretting like, “Oh, I wish I would have worked a few more hours,” or “I wish I would have done this or that.” The stuff he was talking about was real conversations he had with the people he worked with and the friends in his life and his family. So you never look back and be like, “Man, I really wish I wouldn’t have tried to have a real conversation with that person and found out more about their life. I wish I would have just kept it at how to retain earnings on that client.”
John: It’s always the retained earnings, man, that gets you. You’re right. You’re right. There are people that I’ve worked with in my career that I don’t remember and it makes me sad because I know for damn straight they remember me. So they remember me for sure. No, no, I’m just kidding. I’m in their nightmares. I’m like Jason or Freddy Krueger or whatever. No, but that’s so right, man. And then I love that, show up and go first. Don’t be scared. We all have to jump off the high dive eventually, so just go.
Yeah, that’s cool, man. So before I wrap this up, but it’s only fair that I turn the tables and allow you to rapid fire question me since I started out just drilling you. So if you have any, we’re ready to go.
Aaron: We’ll start off an easy one. Well, I guess it may depend. Who would be your top choice of stand-up comedians to meet and hang with?
John: Oh, top choice for stand-up comedians to meet and hang with. I’ve met and hung out with a lot of really cool ones. The ones that I have hung with, I would probably say Jay Leno. He’s really laid back and really cool and really down-to-earth, and he has amazing cars. He’s just a cool regular guy and most of them are, but he’s less neurotic than some of the other ones that I’ve hung out with, if you will. Yeah, so he’s just a cool regular dude. So Jay Leno.
Aaron: That’s awesome. Man, you would kind of expect that from him. He seems like that kind of guy on and off.
John: He’s got blue jeans and a denim shirt like. That’s what he wears.
Aaron: You kind of always hope that they’re like that offstage.
Aaron: All right, so what about most inspiring or most humiliating moment when you are doing?
John: Oh, comedy? Wow, I guess this all happened. It happened all at the same night. The same guy. It was a guy, a heckler. It was like a smaller show. It was like a Wednesday night. So it’s like the first night of the week, and it was in Indianapolis. It was like a 6:30 show, so there were like 20 people there. So I got up and I was the first. I was hosting the show. So I got up first, and I welcomed everyone and all this. And then I just was like, oh, you know, and then I started with a pretty dry joke. This guy up front says, “Nice try.” I was like, “Oh, man, that’s brutal.” So I said to him, I go, “Oh, well, sir, it’s a Wednesday night. We’re out. Are you here celebrating anything?” He says, “I don’t celebrate anything because I have cancer.” I was like, “Oh, my God.” And then I said, “Well, it’s cancer what made you a jerk, or have you been a jerk all your life?”
It was one of those words came out and I was like, “Oh, that was my voice, uh-oh.” But then he started laughing and after the show, he and his wife came out and they were like, “We have not laughed since he was diagnosed. You all had us laughing for the entire hour and a half. Thank you for that.”
I’ve had stories of people that have come up after and like, “I haven’t laughed since x has happened in my life.” It’s like, wow, that’s why I do it. This is the escape. So all of that in one 60-second moment. Amazing when I came back at him and I was like, “Oh, my God! What is wrong with me?” But it was hilarious. So whatever.
Aaron: All right, man, so last one, what’s a surprising takeaway or discovery you’ve had in doing your research on What’s your “And”?
John: Oh, okay, that’s a really great question. Probably the most surprising discovery has been that we’re the normal ones. This is why it started because I was like, well, am I the only one that had a hobby or a passion that someone remembered 12 years later? Am I the oddball? Am I the unique one here? Come to find out we’re the norm, like 92% of people in my research have a hobby or a passion they regularly do. We’re the normal ones. We’re the stereotype. The stereotype that we’ve been believing and we’ve been fed by who knows who is all a complete lie.
So that’s been the most surprising thing to me and freeing as well. It’s pretty liberating to know that, oh, I’m not the weird. The person that does work all the time, you’re the one with the problem. Quit making me feel like I’m weird. If that’s somebody’s thing, if accounting is your passion, then God bless you, but just know that you’re in the smallest of the small percent of people. There’s everybody else, and it’s totally okay both sides of this. It’s totally okay, but we need to make both sides feel okay, not just the side that’s like 3% of the population or eight, I guess, if you want to get technical with the math. That’s probably been the biggest surprise and the most rewarding.
So on that note, Mr. Normal Aaron Jaqua, thank you so much for being a part of What’s Your “And”? I really appreciate you taking time to be with me on the podcast.
That makes two of us. Everyone listening, I’m sure you had a blast as well. If you’d like to see some pictures of Aaron running or connect with him on social media, be sure to go to whatsyourand.com. While you’re on the page, please click the big green button and do the anonymous research survey about corporate culture.
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